Sohale Sizar
The Wise AI

Gratitude and inner work challenge us to explore beyond ego-centric thinking and embrace a more expansive mindset. By confronting our fears and shifting our language to align with life's infinite possibilities, we can transform our understanding of ourselves and our place in the world.

Sohale Sizar
Listen Now
Show Notes

Sohale Sizar is a visionary entrepreneur, musician, and writer dedicated to empowering individuals through technology, education, and spirituality. With an MBA from Stanford and a background in Government from Georgetown University, Sohale has founded four education-focused digital ventures, including the Bring on the Books Foundation, impacting the lives of millions. He has also consulted for Fortune 500 companies on digital product strategy and launch.

Driven by a passion for human flourishing, Sohale’s latest venture, Soul, harnesses the power of AI to help individuals cultivate gratitude and gain deeper insights into their lives. His spiritual journey and exploration of mystical texts have profoundly influenced his work, which aims to make ancient wisdom accessible to people in the modern age.

Sohale’s creative pursuits extend beyond technology. In 2016, he released a solo violin album titled “Sweet Lips,” dedicated to those who thirst for the sweet lips of Freedom. His written work, focusing on human flourishing and technology, has been published in various outlets, including Columbia University’s Journal of Politics and Society, the Philadelphia Inquirer, Huffington Post, and Princeton University’s School of Public Policy and International Affairs PPIA program.

Born and raised in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, Sohale is a thought leader and changemaker committed to creating a more compassionate and connected world through mindful innovation and personal growth.

“I love fear. Fear is the thread that allows me to recognize where I need to grow.” – Sohale Sizar 

Key Takeaways 

  • The Power of Gratitude: Gratitude is a transformative practice that goes beyond writing in a journal. It is a mindset shift that allows us to appreciate the awesomeness in every moment, leading to increased happiness, better sleep, reduced anxiety, and improved overall well-being.
  • Letting Go of Fear: Fear is resistance to life, stemming from our ego-based identity structures. By letting go of these structures and aligning with the abundant possibilities of life, we can reduce fear and allow life to flow through us more freely, embracing the infinite potential that surrounds us.
  • Language Shapes Reality: Our language plays a crucial role in shaping our reality. Scarcity-oriented language, pervasive in our society, reinforces fear and limiting beliefs. By shifting toward language that aligns with gratitude and abundance, we can reframe our perspective and tap into the limitless potential of life.
  • Ancient Wisdom for Modern Times: Ancient wisdom traditions, such as Zen Buddhism, offer valuable insights for navigating the challenges of modern life. By incorporating practices like stillness, contemplation, and self-inquiry, we can gain a deeper understanding of our true nature and cultivate the courage to live life on our own terms, even if it means going against societal conditioning.

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Links for Sohale Sizar 




[00:00:00] Mark Divine: As a Navy SEAL, I had to confront fear through practice, through iteration, through training. We can convert the energy of fear into excitement, readiness, discipline, right?

[00:00:10] Sohale Sizar: I love fear. And I’ll tell you why I do. I love fear because it’s the thread that allows me to recognize where inwardly I need to grow.

[00:00:19] Sohale Sizar: When we talk, talk about taking agency of our narrative. That’s a part of that. When we talk about understanding truly who we are and allowing ourselves to make those decisions Of how we want to live and having the courage to do something outside of quote unquote the norm You know, there was an amazing mystic that I came across and I asked I was like, how does one conquer fear?

[00:00:39] Sohale Sizar: What is it? And her answer was that… 

[00:00:43] Mark Divine: Welcome to the Mark Divine show where the journey to greatness begins with this. Listen. Hoo yah And thank you for being here. As I said, wonderful to have you here in person. 

[00:00:00] Mark Divine: As a Navy SEAL, I had to confront fear through practice, through iteration, through training. We can convert the energy of fear into excitement, readiness, discipline, right?

[00:00:10] Sohale Sizar: I love fear. And I’ll tell you why I do. I love fear because it’s the thread that allows me to recognize where inwardly I need to grow.

[00:00:19] Sohale Sizar: When we talk, talk about taking agency of our narrative. That’s a part of that. When we talk about understanding truly who we are and allowing ourselves to make those decisions Of how we want to live and having the courage to do something outside of quote unquote the norm You know, there was an amazing mystic that I came across and I asked I was like, how does one conquer fear?

[00:00:39] Sohale Sizar: What is it? And her answer was that… 

[00:00:43] Mark Divine: Welcome to the Mark Divine show where the journey to greatness begins with this. Listen. Hoo yah And thank you for being here. As I said, wonderful to have you here in person. 

[00:00:55] Sohale Sizar: It’s a pleasure really making the big trek down from LA.

[00:00:57] Mark Divine: Oh, it’s a massive trek. 

[00:00:58] Sohale Sizar: Shall we start with a gratitude practice?

[00:01:01] Mark Divine: Let’s do it. I’m grateful for you for, for being my first in person studio guest. 

[00:01:06] Sohale Sizar: That’s incredible. Thank you very much. I received that. Um, and I’m, I’m extremely grateful for, for you, for your presence, for being, coming down in person. I really enjoy that. And for the folks who’ve been helping us bring this to life, I really appreciate the folks behind the camera. Thank you. 

[00:01:20] Mark Divine: Yeah, me as well. How do you like our new studio? If you’re not watching the video, we’re in our brand-new studio at Jet Studios here in Encinitas. Uh, John Dahlgren has set up an incredible, and Catherine have set up an incredible, uh, look and feel. It looks beautiful. I love 

[00:01:37] Sohale Sizar: the, the, I was telling, I love the blue, you know, in particular, and because blue has such a blue light and blue rays are, are very rare in the world, supposedly.

[00:01:46] Sohale Sizar: You know, this, this, this. It’s a powerful color. Exactly, yeah, so. I chose 

[00:01:50] Mark Divine: colors of positivity and optimism and, you know, white and blue have a higher vibrational quality to them. I’ve got the Navy SEAL Trident. I noticed there. Yeah. So that represents courage and discipline. And I’ve got my book cover behind me for my next book called Uncommon, Simple Principles for an Extraordinary Life, which we’re going to talk about today, not my book, but about simple principles for an extraordinary life.

[00:02:13] Mark Divine: Right. 

[00:02:14] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I mean, I’m excited for the conversation. I’m excited. Uh, you know, I, I very much admire your, your background, your story. It’s incredibly inspiring and it’s amazing how many, how many areas of life you’ve touched, you know, from Zen Buddhism to Navy SEALs to being a CPA. I mean, it’s like, 

[00:02:31] Mark Divine: that one doesn’t seem to fit quite as well, but 

[00:02:34] Sohale Sizar: you know what?

[00:02:35] Sohale Sizar: It does fit. It fits in this journey that I think all of us are going through to really find out who we are and why we’re here. Right? And that’s, that was your journey. And that is your journey. 

[00:02:43] Mark Divine: That is. I read a great quote yesterday from one of my teachers, now deceased, I got him, Nizar Gadatta Maharaj.

[00:02:51] Mark Divine: And he said that the purpose of life is living. That’s beautiful. Right? So everyone’s like fretting about purpose and what they’re supposed to do in the world. And really what they’re supposed to do is live their life fully. I completely agree. But that’s a practice. It’s, it’s a hard one. Because we’re conditioned to live life By someone else’s rules.

[00:03:13] Sohale Sizar: Absolutely. 

[00:03:13] Mark Divine: Right. And so to live life by your own rules requires deep self awareness I 

[00:03:18] Sohale Sizar: completely agree with you and like I think you had a podcast recently actually or you know a guest who talked about you know Taking control or agency over those narratives and those narratives actually filter in so many elements of our lives Right.

[00:03:32] Sohale Sizar: I mean even from the way we dress It says a narrative to how we spend our time, to who we spend it with. All of these are narratives that we have in our lives. So yeah, it’s, it’s a wreck. Definitely requires a lot of self-awareness to pull those back. 

[00:03:46] Mark Divine: Yeah. And we’ll, I want to get back into like how we can shift those narratives and rewrite the stories, but let’s talk about your story.

[00:03:55] Mark Divine: What was your living of life? 

[00:03:57] Sohale Sizar: Yeah, I was born and raised in New Hope, Pennsylvania. It’s about 20, 30 minutes away from Princeton, New Jersey. Um, across the, you know, across the river there. You know, from a young age, actually my, when I was four, I went to my dad and I said, Hey, dad, I, I think I want, I want to be a prophet when I grow up.

[00:04:10] Sohale Sizar: And I thought that was like the best job. Yeah, I was like, you know, they’re changing people’s lives. There’s a transcendental connection, uh, et cetera. And he’s like, I’m sorry, son. Like that’s, you know. That 

[00:04:20] Mark Divine: job’s taken. 

[00:04:21] Sohale Sizar: Yeah, it’s gone. It’s, it’s unavailable. I Like, choose the next best thing, whatever you like.

[00:04:25] Mark Divine: It doesn’t pay very well either. 

[00:04:27] Sohale Sizar: That’s true. That’s 

[00:04:30] Mark Divine: hilarious. 

[00:04:31] Sohale Sizar: Yeah, so I, you know, I had this, this zeal to make a difference inwardly as well as outwardly. And so when I was nine, I had this idea to, to leverage genetic therapy to cure AIDS. And I, cause I was really into medicine. Like I would just voraciously read.

[00:04:46] Sohale Sizar: At nine. Yeah. You had an idea 

[00:04:48] Mark Divine: for a genetic therapy to cure AIDS. That’s not common. I, I guess not, no. No. Okay. Most kids are like, hunting for their first skateboard. Yeah. 

[00:04:58] Sohale Sizar: Yeah, I, I, I just felt compelled to, to somehow make a difference in the world and I really despised HIV. And I’ll tell you why. Cause the way it introduces itself to the body, it says, I’m a friend and then it gets into the DNA and then it just, you know, basically destroys the cell.

[00:05:11] Sohale Sizar: And so there’s a hypocrisy to it. And I said, I really despise hypocrisy. And so that in particular, I wanted to tackle. And so I then spent the next five years writing letters to PhD labs across the country saying, Hey, I’m this nine year old or whatever, you know, kid, and I would love, I had this idea.

[00:05:30] Sohale Sizar: Would you talk to me? I want to, you know, study this idea in your lab. The answer was frequently. No. Um, it was until high school where I got into a PhD lab and I spent, you know, two summers there working. And then I realized, Lord, you know, I do not want to spend my life in a lab next 10 years doing PhDs.

[00:05:45] Sohale Sizar: You know, pipetting and figuring this out. So, you know, during that time, you know, I, I also found a lot of issues actually in, in the world around me. Um, so I, I went to a very interesting schools, a homogeneous neighborhood, neighborhood, very, I have to say, very blessed and privileged high school. We had two textbooks for every student.

[00:06:06] Sohale Sizar: We got one at the school and then one at home, so we don’t have to hurt our backs, God forbid. 

[00:06:10] Mark Divine: Oh, interesting. Yeah. 

[00:06:11] Sohale Sizar: Wow, a private 

[00:06:13] Mark Divine: school? 

[00:06:13] Sohale Sizar: Uh, no, it was a public school. Phenomenal public school. And then, you know, what we would do is nearly every other year, we would throw out the old edition because we’d get new editions every single year.

[00:06:24] Sohale Sizar: So, you know, I, despite, you know, having this desire for Because they 

[00:06:28] Mark Divine: had to upgrade the programming every year. Of 

[00:06:30] Sohale Sizar: course. Of course, every edition makes a difference. Come on. You had 

[00:06:33] Mark Divine: to rewrite history a little bit. Oh my God. Biology. You had to rewrite biology. 

[00:06:38] Sohale Sizar: Anatomy, you name it. Right. I then started rerouting books from our school to other schools.

[00:06:44] Sohale Sizar: And that was the genesis of the Bring on the Books Foundation, which ended up rerouting 95, 000 books across the country for, from similar schools. Books that 

[00:06:52] Mark Divine: weren’t going to get used. You put them in pans that were, where they were used. Mark, 

[00:06:56] Sohale Sizar: it’s incredible. Like these schools that we would donate books to, they didn’t have a single textbook for a child.

[00:07:01] Sohale Sizar: Like, not even joking, like a single one, like the libraries were literally bare. And so, you know, it made all the sense to make that happen. Um, so I was always trying to figure out things I could do to make a difference. And then that’s led me today to, to what I’m up to today with soul and pioneering, uh, hopefully, you know, the future of spirituality and gratitude.

[00:07:21] Mark Divine: Hi, Mark Divine here from SealFit. After two years of development, I’m super stoked to announce the launch of SealFit supplements and our first product, SealFit Electro Greens. This is the highest quality organic greens. You can find combined with electrolytes into one powerful supplement. Take with eight ounces of water in the morning or add to your smoothie to get your day kicked off right with a proper nutritional supplementation and hydration support.

[00:07:49] Mark Divine: And you can also use it as a pick me up booster during the day or after a workout. It dissolves immediately and believe it or not, it tastes great. I’ve had many testimonials already saying it’s the best tasting greens. That they have ever tried. So who, yeah, still fit supplements. com, or you can find it on Amazon by searching for seal fit.

[00:08:11] Mark Divine: Electro greens. Who? Yeah, let’s do this divine out.

[00:08:20] Mark Divine: That is delicious. Why did you feel the need to get an MBA? It’s a good, which is about as far away from entrepreneurism as you can imagine. I have an MBA and it was absolutely useless for me in terms of, you know, anything to do with starting and running a small business. 

[00:08:37] Sohale Sizar: There’s validity to that. I’ll hear you.

[00:08:38] Sohale Sizar: I don’t know the NYU program as well as the Stanford program. To be 

[00:08:41] Mark Divine: fair, it was 1985 to 89. And so it was all big business process. And yeah, you know, They didn’t have entrepreneurship back then, you know, it’s funny you 

[00:08:49] Sohale Sizar: mentioned 

[00:08:49] Mark Divine: that. So more leadership, right now they have entrepreneurship and leadership.

[00:08:52] Mark Divine: Of course. 

[00:08:53] Sohale Sizar: Actually, that’s what attracted me to the Stanford program. So I was actually forced into it in some ways. Oh, really? Yeah, I was forced into it. I am my friend of mine. Somebody 

[00:09:02] Mark Divine: had someone made you go. Someone made me. 

[00:09:04] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. Pretty much. Um, I actually was, it’s actually funny. I was, um, I thought I was going to the Masters of Public Policy route.

[00:09:12] Sohale Sizar: I was at Georgetown. I was doing a government degree. Then I was at Princeton doing a fellowship. And at the fellowship, I was voted most likely to go to Goldman Sachs. And I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a really bad thing. You know, I’ll let viewers decide what that says about me. But I was, I had this entrepreneurial spirit and they were like, listen, we don’t think you’re necessarily a fit for public policy.

[00:09:32] Sohale Sizar: Um, But maybe you should look at Stanford. And at that point, you know, I had an experience. I was, you know, volunteering at the white house. I worked with senators, you know, I, I had experiences with local government. And, and also non profit through the Bring on the Books Foundation. And I realized in every sector there was a constituency.

[00:09:49] Sohale Sizar: You know, there was the donor base, you know, the voters that we’re targeting. But with business, everyone’s a consumer. So if I want to change the lives of, you know, really expand my impact, let me start at that common denominator. And so I then, my friend was, you know, saying, Hey, I’m visiting D. C. And I’m going to this Stanford admit event.

[00:10:09] Sohale Sizar: You got to join with me. I’m like, Oh God, you serious? Like, I don’t, I don’t feel like going all the way up there, but I love you. Fine. I’ll come up. So I sat there reluctantly and I was, you know, 20 at the time, 2021. And I felt so out of place, but the way, you know, the admissions director, Derek Bolton, the way he sold Stanford, I If I want to change the world, I got to go here.

[00:10:30] Sohale Sizar: Cause they were all about, I think a lot of things that we talk about, right. Is that through knowing yourself, you can be a more powerful, more compelling, more inspiring leader. How can you inspire others to follow you versus compelling them to follow you or to be inspired by you? And that’s what led me.

[00:10:45] Sohale Sizar: I applied, I got in and that’s, that’s how I got to Stanford business school. And you would have loved the program. I think you would there’s a there’s a class called in a parallel 

[00:10:55] Mark Divine: life I’ll go 

[00:10:55] Sohale Sizar: maybe I mean you’ve done it all already But you know, they have a class they’re called interpersonal dynamics or touchy feely is the and so you have a group of individuals I think about nine individuals will sit around and they’ll talk about how Really talk about nothing, but eventually it goes down to how other people come across from each other.

[00:11:15] Sohale Sizar: And, uh, so I said, well, when you do this, you make me feel this way. And when you do that, you make me feel that way. And then you start learning about yourself from other perspectives. And one may say, how does that have anything to do with, you know, the gap method and, and, uh, you know, Financial statements and what that has to do is with the leadership.

[00:11:36] Mark Divine: The first part of that statement rang true to me where you sit around and talk about nothing. 

[00:11:41] Sohale Sizar: Yeah, it was so frustrating. 

[00:11:46] Mark Divine: I remember a class I took at a USD. I was at, um, their doctoral program in leadership back in nine or 2000, 2001 ish. I didn’t finish cause I got mobilized to go to Iraq. Yeah. I read that.

[00:12:00] Mark Divine: Yeah. And when I was in Iraq, I. made some decisions. One was to develop leaders and to not be an academic. So I left the program, but anyways, one of the classes we took was an intercession class and it was. I forget the name of the class, but it was all based on something called the Tavistock method and it’s fascinating I think you would appreciate this.

[00:12:20] Mark Divine: We all came into this kind of Amphitheater room and we sat down and we just sat and we waited. Yeah, like we waited exactly. Okay, where is the teacher? What’s the class about? What’s the schedule? Where’s the content? And there was none of that. None of it, yeah. Absolutely just complete void. Oh yeah. And so, the whole point was to see what patterns arise.

[00:12:43] Mark Divine: Yeah. And so the, you know, the military guy gets up and says, Okay, well, um, no one’s in charge. I guess I’ll take charge. And then, you know, That’s me, by the way. The, uh, you know, the activist says, Who put you in charge? Right? Like, who elected you God for the day? And then it all broke down from there. Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:02] Mark Divine: And then we had to rebuild from the ashes. 

[00:13:04] Sohale Sizar: Just fascinating. It was exactly like that actually. So and it was very nerve wracking for me because no one would say anything. Like we’d sit around in a circle and they’d just look at each other. Right, just waiting. 

[00:13:15] Mark Divine: Yeah. Who’s going to say, who’s going to speak first?

[00:13:17] Mark Divine: Yeah, it was like two hours. You watch your mind wanting to fill that void. 

[00:13:21] Sohale Sizar: Well, I just spoke up. I said, all right, if you guys are going to be all shy, I mean, I’m going to just say something, you know, and get everyone to say something. Cause come on. I mean, you were playing your role. Oh, absolutely. I was playing my role.

[00:13:32] Sohale Sizar: That’s why we said the military leader guy. I’m not the military leader, but I definitely said something. 

[00:13:36] Mark Divine: You wanted to be the leader. Creating the space, you don’t need a class, you don’t need to spend 150, 000 to go to Harvard or Stanford MBA to create the space for that type of, um, self awareness to emerge.

[00:13:50] Mark Divine: One of my favorite quotes, uh, a guy named Poonjab said, uh, sitting in silence, Is the most important thing. Don’t waste time not doing it. And so we as Westerners have this, uh, we’re trained. We are. To be focused on action, to be doing, to be performing. Absolutely. Putting points on the board. Absolutely. It’s all objective reality.

[00:14:12] Mark Divine: And we completely deny the subjective reality that is experienced in silence and stillness. I think one of my missions is to bring that balance back. The yin and the yang, right? Yang is all action oriented. Do, do, build, build, talk, talk, to know and to know more, right? This craving for knowledge as if that’s going to make a difference.

[00:14:35] Mark Divine: And it’s all heading in one direction, which is outward and away from. Your truth. 

[00:14:42] Sohale Sizar: I mean, I completely agree. I know for me, I mean, there was always this, and I’m sure so many others resonate. Whereas it always feels like the next step, you know, you 

[00:14:51] Mark Divine: grasping, striving. 

[00:14:52] Sohale Sizar: Exactly. Right. And you know, I think young people these days in particular, say like I’m at 450 years old, but you know, it’s like you too.

[00:15:00] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. I mean, I’ve for sure by tomorrow, I’ll be four 80 Mark. Trust me. It just pops up. You have no idea. But you know, it’s like you have to do well in SATs, then you get to a good college, then from college, like, figure out like, you know, what job you’re gonna get after you graduate, then what job, or, you know, like, I’m gonna meet my life partner, and now, okay, I checked that out, like, check, check, check, check, check.

[00:15:18] Mark Divine: And not only that, but while you’re doing those things, you have to do 27 other things to feel like you’re still being productive. Exactly. It’s insane. And So stop doing that. I, 

[00:15:28] Sohale Sizar: I, I agree. I actually, so I burnt out. I was in my, uh, what was I, like my sophomore year, so I was just getting to be a junior, and I totally broke down.

[00:15:37] Sohale Sizar: And I remember, I was like, I cannot continue trying to just say, I have to get an A, I have to get an A, I have to get an A. Let me learn what, the material for the class so well that I happen to get an A. Let me focus it that way. And that helped me a lot more, but you know, I’ll say it’s still a constant tension.

[00:15:59] Sohale Sizar: Of how do you balance what is reality? You talked about that quote already of living is our purpose, right? Well, you know, a lot of times there’s that FOMO, right? And now then it becomes this spiritual endeavor, I would say, to how do we conquer fear, right? And I could go on forever about it. Let’s, 

[00:16:19] Mark Divine: let’s, uh, double click on that.

[00:16:22] Mark Divine: Because as a Navy SEAL, I had to confront fear. There’s a lot of misperceptions about fear. I’d love to hear what your thoughts are. 

[00:16:30] Sohale Sizar: Well, I think it comes from, personally what I believe, it comes from a lack of trust of the divine. Um, and I believe, and I, I and I, this is, I’m glad you trust me. Yeah. I, I do.

[00:16:41] Sohale Sizar: Trust me, I do. Sorry, that was a bad joke. No, it’s all right. It’s all right. It’s good. I cosmic joke, . Yeah. Actually, trust me, capital M you know, there was an amazing mystic that I came across and, and she’s just incredible. So I had a, a constant quest to understand fear. You know, so one time I was about to get my internship for, you know, I was looking for internships in my MBA year and I was so afraid.

[00:17:06] Sohale Sizar: And I, that night I had a dream. I remember that night I had a dream and, uh, God said to me, Hey, Sohail, do you want me to open up this veil of what the devil is doing when you’re afraid? You know, like, so yeah, sure, why not? You know, let’s see what’s going on. And so, and I just hear this laughter, like this joy as if the devil’s like, you know, I don’t have to do anything with Sohail.

[00:17:26] Sohale Sizar: Let him go his way. Let him be all fearful. He’s good to go for, for my end. And so I met this mystic and I wanted to, I asked, I was like, what, how do you, how does one conquer fear? What is it? And so she broke down fear into two categories, which was fear of not getting what we need. And fear of losing what we have.

[00:17:45] Sohale Sizar: Right. So obviously, you know, both makes sense. Fear of not getting what you need. Am I going to get into the good university or scale this business or whatever it may be, or meet the life partner, whatever the case may be, am I going to get those needs met or am I going to lose, you know, What I’ve accumulated.

[00:18:03] Sohale Sizar: And her answer was that I don’t have anything. There’s nothing to lose because I have nothing. Everything is of, for someone else. I knew some people when I was growing up, I always was afraid to say God or divine or anything, because I was with one, I’d be perceived as, as if I’m stupid. Cause like, wow, you don’t believe in science, but you believe in, you know, something that transcends you, uh, which I thought was ridiculous, but you know, and, and so I always had this phrase I’d say, I said, oops, I said, God.

[00:18:33] Sohale Sizar: Oops, whoopsies, you know, I, and even in business school, I remember one, you know, one, one classmate was kind of making fun of me, you know, like, oh, wow, you believe like you’re, you’re, you know, but candidly, Mark, I’d be, if I’d be totally honest and real with you, I haven’t found any other answer that connects, you know, the union, the transcendental union with the, with, with the God here and that meeting point of reality, which is divinity, which frees us from these types of things that we just talked about, about fear.

[00:19:02] Mark Divine: That’s nice. I’ll give you my Navy SEAL perspective. Fear exists. Primordial. It’s part of the ego structure. And so fear is not to be feared. It’s to be confronted. And, uh, it’s meant to be tamed in a sense. And we do that through training and through self awareness and through, you know, inching closer to that which we fear.

[00:19:25] Mark Divine: And for most, ultimately it’s like existential fear of loss of the body. And so you, um, you keep creeping closer to that line as a seal through practice, through iteration, through training, until the energy of fear, we can convert that crucible transformation process. You know, the alchemy that happens and you convert the energy of fear into excitement, into readiness, into discipline, right?

[00:19:58] Mark Divine: And you can insert your own word there, but that, that energy, which is just this very, very powerful energy of that survival instinct then becomes action oriented energy for mission success for the Navy SEAL. So you’ve got to stare, stare the fear in the face to become intimate with it. And most people turn their back on it and try to run away.

[00:20:19] Mark Divine: And then it chases them. So that’s one perspective. The other perspective, and it really kind of links to that is fear. Fear is resistance to life. So good. Fear is resistance to life. And so, the more that we can let go of all of those identity structures that the ego holds on to, the more life flows through us, the less fear we have.

[00:20:48] Mark Divine: Until it dissipates entirely. I love that. Which is the other way, it’s like coming at it the other way from your prophet sage. She said, I have nothing, therefore there’s nothing to fear. And I’m suggesting is, let go of everything that you think you have. And you’ll find the fear is gone. 

[00:21:05] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. And that’s the process for sure.

[00:21:07] Sohale Sizar: And what I love about what you said, actually I want to say something. I love fear. I love fear and I’ll tell you, and why do I love fear? Because it’s the thread that allows me to recognize where inwardly I need to grow. 

[00:21:21] Mark Divine: Yeah. That’s a boundary. 

[00:21:22] Sohale Sizar: Exactly. 

[00:21:23] Mark Divine: Right. Fear is a line. Like it’s a red line. 

[00:21:25] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. 

[00:21:26] Mark Divine: And so that’s exciting.

[00:21:27] Mark Divine: Like you walk up to that red line and you peek over and you’re like, Hmm. 

[00:21:30] Sohale Sizar: It’s curious. Yeah, let me learn more. What’s on the other side? And why? Right? And the other side is the devil laughing at you. Yeah, exactly. That’s hilarious. And then you realize it’s like, oh, there’s nothing really there. It’s 

[00:21:42] Mark Divine: nothing 

[00:21:42] Sohale Sizar: there.

[00:21:42] Sohale Sizar: Or, you know, it was a memory from childhood. And so something that was It was a coiled 

[00:21:46] Mark Divine: rope. Yeah, exactly. That you mistook as a snake. Exactly. Yeah. False evidence appearing real or a false expectation, which is even more, you know, useful acronym. Like, everyone has these false expectations based upon their programming or some sort of desire for an outcome.

[00:22:04] Mark Divine: And if, if you’re attached to that outcome, you’re going to experience fear. So this is very close to your definition. You’re gonna experience fear of either not getting it or losing it. Yeah, that’s exactly right. So if you let go of expectations and your attachment to outcomes, then the fear also dissipates.

[00:22:19] Sohale Sizar: Yeah, but you know the heart and I’d love your thoughts on this too, and I’m sure I have thoughts, is how do we balance? You know, because we are human beings and we have, you know, so to speak, goals, right? In this, in this world, how do we balance? goals versus surrendering. Right. And, and I feel like that that’s, that’s the practice.

[00:22:40] Sohale Sizar: Yeah, that’s exactly, 

[00:22:42] Mark Divine: I mean, that’s, that’s our practice. It’s, I mean, I think ultimately it’s the master practice and, um, the principle way describes this very well as action, no action, action, or no actor action without the action. And so what this is meaning is, um, Getting the ego out of the way, stop taking ownership of the action.

[00:23:04] Mark Divine: Allow the action to arise spontaneously. This is a great practice to try is to stop. Stop doing anything and see if you can do nothing. You can’t possibly do nothing because even stopping doing anything is doing something. But what it reveals is that which can’t not be done. Everything that can’t not be done will happen regardless of whether your ego takes ownership of it or not.

[00:23:33] Mark Divine: That’s way, way, way, action without the actor. So if you stop doing anything, That isn’t that which can’t not be done, then you’re getting really close to the truth. Cause your ego is out of the way. 

[00:23:47] Sohale Sizar: It’s beautiful. It’s really, really beautiful. And when I hear that, it’s funny. I was laughing cause I also, because I was.

[00:23:54] Sohale Sizar: On the way, when I was driving here, literally, that’s what was my, was an insight for me as I was thinking about, you know, these things. It’s like, it’s going to happen anyways, if I’m going to be pushing it or not pushing it or et cetera. 

[00:24:05] Mark Divine: Right. I’m right there with you. So you’re, you’ve got this mental idea of this construct of what this show is going to be in the interview and how you’re going to perform.

[00:24:12] Mark Divine: And, and you’re probably like doing the visualization and the mental preparation and rehearsal, and all of that is making you more anxious. 

[00:24:20] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. And so 

[00:24:21] Mark Divine: that, so you said stop. Yeah. Because it’s gonna happen. What will be, will be. 

[00:24:25] Sohale Sizar: We’ll have fun. It’s great. Words will come out of our mouths. Yeah, exactly.

[00:24:29] Sohale Sizar: Have fun with them. Yeah, I mean a hundred percent. And like, and what is the point really? Right? And I think that’s the, the main takeaway. And for me though, it’s also been a realization, a spiritual kind of, Inquiry as to how can I have more trust with divinity or with the transcendent or with being? And the answer that I’ve heard recently, for myself at least, is that we’ve already been here.

[00:24:54] Sohale Sizar: Meaning it’s, it’s already been here. Going to your point about stop signs. When we’re being silent, we’re realizing, Oh, we, what has gotten us to be here today? The whole time it’s been here. Since we were born, it’s been here, right? Since before you were born, it’s been here. Exactly. So it’s that recognition of that and that I really do believe takes discipline and it takes gratitude in particular, 

[00:25:17] Mark Divine: right?

[00:25:17] Mark Divine: Right. Another source of fear is false perceptions based on flawed memory and memory is It’s a useful servant, but it could be an awful slave lord And people who live by memory or believe their memory is sacrosanct are really trapped in suffering because memory is, it’s very fickle and, and it’s very changing, right?

[00:25:43] Mark Divine: And so, and it’s never based on truth, right? So you have a perception of an experience that is perceived through an extraordinarily narrow aperture and then locked in memory as if it’s everything. It’s missing a hundred percent of the context. Oh, absolutely. 99. 999%. But that 0. 0001 percent is that small aperture, which is your understanding at that point in time that memory occurred.

[00:26:08] Mark Divine: And so then, and then by the way, most memories will dissipate. It’s only the ones that are really, really powerful that stick with us. And we thread kind of false memories in between, just like the mind will fill the gaps, right? Yeah. In the field of vision. And people rest on that as if it’s gospel, as if it’s their life.

[00:26:28] Mark Divine: And it’s not. So when I reflect back to my childhood. One of my really cool practices is I will have a memory that, you know, is strong enough that I can go back to that memory and ask, what’s the same between now and then? And what’s the same is awareness, the same awareness that I’m experienced now threaded that experience.

[00:26:52] Mark Divine: It wasn’t the memory, right? It’s amazing you say that. So that’s the, you know, that does just helpful pointers, right? Like a Japanese Cohen to resent Cohen to get you to. Recognize what’s really going on. Yeah. We have the, the form and the formless and people focus all on the form thinking that’s the only thing.

[00:27:12] Mark Divine: And the formless. Is equally important because it’s what allows the form to happen or you know, it’s it’s co existent with the form of 

[00:27:21] Sohale Sizar: yeah I mean I was it’s so funny again. I was driving up here It’s just so funny because I think you know, I was I was prepped from you know As I was driving up here, which was I felt compelled to put a very old childhood song of mine on And why I put it on, I, I said, I want to evoke the feeling I remember I would come from, I played violin for 20 years and I would come from orchestra and I would be in the, in the bus and I had this yellow Sony CD player and I put it on and had this song and I’d love it, you know, and, and the sun was rising at that point because it was so early orchestra rehearsal.

[00:27:54] Sohale Sizar: And, um, and I had just such joy. The sun is shining and the song is very romantic actually. And so it reminded this like lover in my mind as a kid. I was like, Oh, you know, and fall in love. And then, you know, that type of thing. So I felt this, yeah, I felt compelled. I was like, let me put it on. And, and I think what you’re, what I hear from you or how it, how it lands for me is that there’s a quintessence to this memory.

[00:28:19] Sohale Sizar: And this quintessence was, Love like to be loved and to recognize loved being loved and and then I and then I started asking myself Well, what does that really mean and a voice in my head or my heart said to me? Well, it means to be very small and I said what does that mean? Is it for the ego to really be?

[00:28:36] Sohale Sizar: Almost to give if there was a container for the eagle to be very small So the rest of it can be filled with you would probably say the formless. 

[00:28:44] Mark Divine: Oh, that’s awesome Right reminds me of another quote from I think a fury says everyone is aware of the single drop merging to the ocean But it’s rare to be aware of the ocean merging into a single drop.

[00:28:59] Mark Divine: Oh, that’s beautiful. So that’s what you just said. Yeah. In other words, That’s a beautiful 

[00:29:03] Sohale Sizar: way of a quote to You feel very 

[00:29:05] Mark Divine: small. Like you could imagine your awareness point being infinitesimally small point of consciousness that includes everything. It’s like a black hole. Yeah. The black hole is infinite.

[00:29:23] Mark Divine: It’ll take everything down to the very smallest. But simultaneously. It expands everything into everything. This, this is the quantum reality that we live in. I know you, you use that term quantum linguistics. So tell me about that. I’m curious. Yeah. It’s a, because I, I have a sense of what you’re, what you mean, but I’m, I think it’s fascinating.

[00:29:42] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. I mean, really at the core of it is. So I’ll take a step back as we get into it. Right. So the, the key really is, is I had a coach three years ago and basically we analyzed my language, like, how do I speak? And a lot of this way, wasn’t 

[00:29:56] Mark Divine: Larry Yatch, was it? Was it? Was it Larry Yatch? No, no, it’s 

[00:30:00] Sohale Sizar: actually a CEO of a company.

[00:30:01] Sohale Sizar: He’s 

[00:30:01] Mark Divine: got a program based on linguistics, which is fascinating. Okay. He’s a Navy SEAL friend of mine, too. Okay, brilliant. Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:30:07] Sohale Sizar: so we, you know, we, basically it was all scarcity based. I was telling everything in the framing of what it is not, right? So, um, I can’t do this or maybe I can do that or I don’t know that or or framing things more scarcity oriented versus abundant oriented as to what they are.

[00:30:25] Sohale Sizar: And I think quantum linguistics is a really nice way or, you know, of saying basically that, how do we frame our language towards the idea of infinite possibility? And what I, what I had to do is rewire the way I speak in order to Align myself with that abundant mentality and when in that process of rewiring, I started uncovering or uncovering is the wrong word, actually revealing what are the areas in my childhood or scarcity oriented mindset that I have, for example, that I need to refrain, it changed my life immensely.

[00:31:05] Sohale Sizar: But here’s the scary part of this. As we move throughout life, that type of language, the scarcity oriented language is everywhere, everywhere. You know, you hear it in songs, you hear it on, you see it on billboards or advertisements and movies and scripts, etc. Once you become aware of it, it’s like, oh, why are we going towards, you know, the, the absence of light?

[00:31:26] Sohale Sizar: Let’s go towards more of the light. Of what things really are, what the nature of reality really is. And that’s quantum linguistics. Yeah. 

[00:31:35] Mark Divine: I love that. There’s so much to say and unpack that, but everything is training. And so all of that content. That’s training and and I believe it’s a deliberate training system to keep people in Scarcity 

[00:31:50] Outro: mm 

[00:31:50] Mark Divine: hmm and in fear and in in some negative vibratory quality, which makes them much easier Civilization needs to control that and so if everyone is operating at the level of you know Pure love and light then there’s no need for government 

[00:32:07] Sohale Sizar: And no, and capitalism would probably, capitalism would fray at the seams and fly apart.

[00:32:11] Sohale Sizar: Exactly. 

[00:32:11] Mark Divine: There, yeah. We live in a sharing economy. We see examples of that popping up all over the place. 

[00:32:16] Sohale Sizar: What’s something to be noted, which is fascinating because we can go to the skies and we can also go down to conversion metrics of like, unlike what gets folks to, yeah. And we have had a lot of conversations with leaders about this who’ve actually done a lot of testing on whether it’s on ads or, or product development and whatever it is.

[00:32:35] Sohale Sizar: And they say that. You know, what we find is the scarcity mindset compels folks to take an action. Fear of missing out. Exactly. And so, you know, even myself as someone who’s, you know, building this, you know, this vision of, of. Gratitude and leveraging the power of technology to do that. I have to be cognizant of, okay, are we using, I’ve had 

[00:32:58] Mark Divine: to let go of copywriters and be like, no, we’re just not going to do this.

[00:33:01] Mark Divine: Right. And you know, business won’t be as big. I have some teammates, Navy SEALs who are like, have massive followings and they’re using those techniques, whether they know it or not, they’re leveraging fear based 

[00:33:13] Sohale Sizar: language. It is a double edged sword because one could say, well, you know The devil’s advocate argument could be to say, listen, you know, we want to at least bring them in.

[00:33:22] Sohale Sizar: You know, and so then when we’re there, we can make that change, yeah, or, or meet them where they’re at, you know, and I think that’s everyone, each person’s individual, you know, decision, but there is this cyclical cycle of reinforcement that’s happening, which is that, well, someone’s afraid, okay, we’re going to serve them to where they’re at, okay, we’re going to reinforce the fear, and then, you know, again, we’re going to serve them at their at and go on and on and on.

[00:33:47] Mark Divine: So how do we like using gratitude, how do we break? out of that. And I want to also want to tie this to linguistics because it’s so important. Yes. Yes. How we talk to ourselves especially. 

[00:34:00] Sohale Sizar: So it’s funny. A lot of folks struggle to actually build a gratitude habit. Just to take a step back. The research in gratitude is Absolutely incredible.

[00:34:09] Sohale Sizar: And I’m sure you, you know, you already know this. Obviously the main thing is that it makes you happier, more joy, more contentment, reduces anxiety, burnout. A lot of folks don’t know that it improves your quality of sleep. It, you know, it, uh, it boosts your immune system. It even increases your, you know, your ability to deal with pain.

[00:34:27] Sohale Sizar: And so that’s, so we get it like, it’s great. And the truth, the ugly truth maybe is that so many of us struggle to build actually a gratitude habit. And a lot of that comes down to, you know, habit formation. And so what many, many people do is they buy a journal and they write in that journal, and they do it for like a few days, you know, what they’re grateful for.

[00:34:52] Sohale Sizar: And, you know, then they forget about it and they move on with their lives. 

[00:34:56] Mark Divine: We talk about a gratitude practice the way most people think about it, and the way it’s taught is it, it should be getting out a journal and writing down things I’m grateful for. But to me, that’s pretty rudimentary. I agree 100%.

[00:35:06] Mark Divine: Gratitude is found in the moments, right? In the cracks and being able to just appreciate the awesomeness of everything that goes into, like, this moment. It’s a mindset shift. It’s a mindset shift, yeah. That’s 

[00:35:18] Sohale Sizar: essentially what it is. And then I would even say it’s a realignment with your soul. 

[00:35:22] Mark Divine: It’s a shift to a higher level of consciousness.

[00:35:24] Mark Divine: Exactly. The practice is to cement that. In so you don’t backslide exactly, or if you get triggered into something less than gratitude or, you know, those higher levels of consciousness, then you can quickly get yourself back into the positive territory. And this goes back to language, right? So the language of less than gratitude is.

[00:35:44] Mark Divine: It’s going to be negative. It’s going to be language that brackets and closes in. 

[00:35:49] Sohale Sizar: An absence of life or scarcity oriented. The issue with that is the denial of the truth, right? Which is that in every moment there is full possibilities, truly. And so when we’re speaking in a lot of, Brene Brown talks about gratitude, having to be an observable practice, meaning like write it down, et cetera.

[00:36:09] Sohale Sizar: And that’s to reinforce this point that you’re making, which is that the way we speak in gratitude is speaking, basically, I would say alignment with that, which inspired all that is in alignment with living. And so when we say, I’m grateful for this, even for the littlest thing, like, Oh, this, the feeling of this pen in my hand, right.

[00:36:28] Sohale Sizar: Or the feeling of the jacket or whatever it may be, that is a step towards light and, and aligning your, your, your mind with, with really truly your soul. 

[00:36:38] Mark Divine: I love it. It reminds me of Dr. Hawkins admonition to find courage as the gateway from negative realms to positive consciousness. So if you can. And courage is, is heart, right?

[00:36:55] Mark Divine: The core, the French word core is heart. So courage means acting from heart or with heart. Gratitude is the outcome, right? Of courage. Cause in the other side of courage, you know, from fear, from pride, from jealousy, from whatever, you know, shame, we’re grateful that we’re not there. And then, like you said, it’s, then you’re opening up into what he calls power versus the force.

[00:37:23] Mark Divine: Force is the negative energy. And force needs to be controlled, whereas courage is that doorway. And the other side of courage, you open up into power. And power is that infinite possibilities. Everything’s possible. And consciousness will still have, you know, evolutionary tendencies through different, um, stages.

[00:37:42] Mark Divine: And, and he was able to kind of measure those through his, uh, Extraordinary work. Actually, if you’re listening, you’ve hadn’t read Dr. David Hawkins work, then please do. 

[00:37:51] Sohale Sizar: I mean, what I’d say is that a certain point I, and I would contend that at that stage of power, the illusory nature of force becomes illuminated, right?

[00:38:02] Sohale Sizar: Because it’s our perception that it is force. And it was brilliant. And this conversation is what I love. It’s thousands of years old that we’re having here because there was a moment. And, um, actually there’s a really profound story where, you know, Moses wanted to essentially elevate his consciousness.

[00:38:22] Sohale Sizar: This is after, you know, the, the, 

[00:38:25] Mark Divine: after he brought the 15 commandments down and broke one of the tablets. 

[00:38:28] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. After all of that, after all of that. So God says, yes, there’s this individual, or he gets, you know, a sign that there’s an individual who’s very, very enlightened and he meets this individual and the individual says, okay, you can hang out, you can spend time with me, hang out with me.

[00:38:45] Sohale Sizar: I don’t know if he’ll be patient, but you know, Moses, nah, I’m good to go. Don’t worry. So they go, they, they, he hangs out with them. Amen. Um, and they go to a specific, I believe, um, the enlightened individual, uh, kills a child. Moses is like, how could you kill this child? Like, he’s a kid. What are you doing?

[00:39:01] Sohale Sizar: You committed a sin, right? And he’s like, I told you you couldn’t bear, you know, bear with me. And he ends up going through all these different scenarios that in our eyes would be Totally ridiculous, you know? And, and then he starts revealing and said, well, because that child was going to end up becoming a very bad human being and like destroying people’s lives.

[00:39:20] Sohale Sizar: And it was revealed that he was going to go this way and like his parents were good people and we didn’t want them to suffer and whatever. So we decided to send them to God faster than later on or whatever it is. And so anyways, the point is our perception is, our perception is, uh, is just a data point of one.

[00:39:37] Sohale Sizar: There’s a lot of other possibilities beyond what we see. 

[00:39:40] Mark Divine: Yeah. There’s infinite. number of reasons for everything to happen. The idea of linear cause and effect is a construct of the mind. And it actually is one of the causes of suffering because we take such responsibility for everything. And this flies in the face of most leadership, like take responsibility, you know, and from the perspective of where that’s coming from for social order and whatnot, and for even living a good life, it does make sense.

[00:40:06] Mark Divine: But from the. Unitive perspective. It’s nonsensical 

[00:40:12] Sohale Sizar: a hundred percent and I think that’s the part of when we talk to talk about taking agency of our narrative That’s a part of that when we talk about Rediff How do you want to say redefining but understanding truly who we are and allowing ourselves to make those?

[00:40:27] Sohale Sizar: decisions of how we want to live if whether it’s from going from a CPA to You know, going and studying Zen Buddhism, right. And having the courage to do something outside of quote unquote, the norm. Right. Which is totally boring 

[00:40:43] Mark Divine: by the way. Foundational conditioning. Certainly wouldn’t be having this conversation if I hadn’t broken 

[00:40:47] Sohale Sizar: free from that storyline.

[00:40:48] Sohale Sizar: For sure. And probably the, the joy and the inner, you know, inner bliss that you experience is probably way more than, you know, the guy at Arthur Anderson, no offense to him. I was there by the way. I know. That’s why I mentioned it. There’s a reason why I mentioned that. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. But it does take courage.

[00:41:04] Sohale Sizar: It takes courage to say, you know, I’m going to kind of do something a bit differently than what I’ve been told to do, because you feel like you’re going to drown, 

[00:41:11] Mark Divine: you know? Yeah. And the courage is also kind of back to where we started this conversation. It’s to be comfortable sitting in silence to allow what that is to reveal itself instead of charging like a bull Willy nilly into the next thing that maybe looks shiny on tick tock.

[00:41:28] Mark Divine: Yeah, but 

[00:41:29] Sohale Sizar: exactly 

[00:41:29] Mark Divine: it’s not the right thing for you I have a whole chapter in my book about that Kokoro Mountain merging heart and mind and actions and finding your purpose or your or your Dharma that calling is an archetypal urge Right. It’s the karmic energy of why we’re on on this plane and why we’ve you come back and that energy is played out.

[00:41:49] Mark Divine: So this is how karma and dharma really are. The yin and yang, you know, one principle. Karma is the energy that says, okay, we’re here. This is why it infuses your life and to send you off in a direction and dharma is basically Getting clear about that and fulfilling that. 

[00:42:06] Sohale Sizar: And I think that’s courage for our time, you know I think in different times, what the definition of what does it mean to be courageous was probably different.

[00:42:15] Sohale Sizar: Maybe action was needed more than Contemplation and now we need more contemplation. But here’s the thing that I do a level. Yeah. Yeah, I 

[00:42:23] Mark Divine: agree Yeah, all the action is leading us down the toilet bowl in terms of like our culture and the violence Oh, absolutely. So everyone needs to take a breath and just pause and just stop.

[00:42:33] Mark Divine: Can you imagine just a dog? day of stopping everything. Yeah. We saw a brief hint of that in COVID, right? In the beginning of COVID. Remember the picture where the, you know, from the town in India, you could see the Himalayas for the first time. Yeah. 

[00:42:44] Sohale Sizar: No pollution. No pollution. 

[00:42:46] Mark Divine: Now, of course, the context for why that happened was dark.

[00:42:50] Mark Divine: But, um, yeah. If we all stopped for good, for, for gratitude, a day of gratitude, where we just stop everything, stop all action, stop all judgments, we should start that, the day of gratitude. 

[00:43:03] Sohale Sizar: Well, I’m with you. Yeah. And I would say though. 

[00:43:07] Mark Divine: National holiday or global holiday. We’ll declare it a global holiday.

[00:43:10] Mark Divine: We should. 

[00:43:11] Sohale Sizar: I’m sure there’s, there is a world without a bad day. But I would say that we should, the sad thing though, I would say, and not sad thing, but the opportunity, let’s reframe it, it’s the opportunity. Is that for many folks, it can be a daily, just a one day thing, but how can we infuse and weave and thread that every day, right.

[00:43:30] Sohale Sizar: Or at least weekly. And that’s what I actually, I struggled. So three years ago I had a friend and she said to me, we should do gratitude practice habit together. You know, we’re going to keep each other accountability to buddies. Mark, I’m embarrassed to say this. I did it for five days, five days, that’s it.

[00:43:45] Sohale Sizar: And then I moved on. I’m busy. I got things to do. I’m running around, you know? And so what I would do is I would write an email to myself. I’d schedule, send an email to myself and I write what I’m grateful for. And I’d come back to my inbox three days later, I’d reply to it. Schedule, come back to my inbox and we got to figure out ways 

[00:44:02] Mark Divine: for your current business.

[00:44:03] Sohale Sizar: That’s the seed. Yeah. And so actually it was really spontaneous because you talk about, you know, Dharma. Right. And so three years in, I’m part of, you know, a lot of these support founder groups, you know, we’re talking about what works for us, et cetera. And I share, Hey, this is working for me. Like I love it.

[00:44:19] Sohale Sizar: It’s transformed my life because it’s just been an emotional life vest in this ocean waves of life. And they said, Oh, well, we want to try it out. We want to use it. All right, cool. All right. So, you know, you know, made a hacky version for text message, you know, analyze the data over the three years where I randomly converted, notice that there was this, you know, crescendo that seemed to be, you know, part of it, put that in this tool.

[00:44:44] Sohale Sizar: And now people get these spontaneous nudges over text message. And this was just a side project, something really I did as a hobby. Um, my last company ends up getting acquired and. You know, and, and I get the opportunity then to work on this full time after that. 

[00:44:59] Mark Divine: Oh, that’s cool. 

[00:45:00] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. And so now folks get, you know, spontaneous nudges over text message.

[00:45:03] Sohale Sizar: They respond to what they’re grateful for right in their text message. Leverage is where we’re most people are. Yeah. Information is all stored in the app. So because it’s text messages, it’s encrypted on our database. And for folks who want more insight, you know, we offer, this is, this is where we’re using AI for good, right?

[00:45:20] Sohale Sizar: Which is that we’ve trained this, you know, this, this AI based off some mystical texts that, you know, very, very deep. Yeah. And we give psychological and spiritual insights to those folks. It’s actually pretty, pretty impressive where, you know, uh, we basically say here are the areas of your life where you are grateful for.

[00:45:36] Sohale Sizar: Here are the areas where you could grow. And the growth areas are actually doorways to figuring out what you’re fearful for. Why you don’t say great gratitude for these particular things? That’s how it served for me. So that’s, yes, you’re right. That’s how it worked. 

[00:45:48] Mark Divine: Where do I go to learn about that? Soul something?

[00:45:50] Mark Divine: Yeah, bringonsoul. com. bringonsoul. com. 

[00:45:52] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. And heart 30 for, for 30 days on me for people to try out, try it out. 

[00:45:57] Mark Divine: That’s cool. 

[00:45:57] Sohale Sizar: Yeah. And we need more tools that leverage the power of technology for us to dig deeper to our souls. 

[00:46:06] Mark Divine: We need it. Well, we’re at a pivotal point. Not just in this podcast, but in humanity where, where these tools, like you said, AI, you know, can be used for great good or great harm.

[00:46:18] Mark Divine: And it probably, it will be used for both just like any technology. Yeah. I mean, human humans are facing a, um, another evolutionary moment, I think. I agree. And so what, God is here isn’t going to get us there and the answer is in the nonlinear, right? It’s in the stuff we’re talking about opening up to the field of potential and gratitude is a great doorway Yeah, courage is a great doorway to but they go hand in hand 

[00:46:43] Sohale Sizar: Oh, absolutely.

[00:46:44] Sohale Sizar: And and I think that there are some basic tenets of what works To understand and ultimately self-realize our own consciousness, capital C. I mean it’s been happening for thousands of years. Zen Buddhism has been thousands of years. It’s gonna happen with or without us. Yeah, for sure. It’s illuminating the power of these geniuses, this wisdom, these fountains of wisdom to folks in this day and age.

[00:47:12] Sohale Sizar: Because a lot of it has gotten You know, tossed aside for, Oh, you know, there’s this funny video. Let me put this, nothing wrong with being entertained. There is something wrong about forgetting about who you are. And one of my concerns, Mark, is that we have so much, so much, so many resources that can be misleading, seemingly bring you towards oneness and that unit of knowledge that you mentioned, but, you know, ultimately are another manifestation of the ego.

[00:47:43] Sohale Sizar: And I think we’ve got to be very, uh, very careful about, you know, our sources. And that’s why what you’re doing and what you’re speaking of is brilliant because I know it’s, it’s really, it comes from a very sincere and pure place. 

[00:47:52] Mark Divine: Hey everyone. This is Mark Divine, founder of SealFit and Unbeatable Mind.

[00:47:55] Mark Divine: And I’m super stoked to announce that my new book, Uncommon, is due out from St. Martin’s press this summer, July 16th, and we’ve launched a pre-order campaign. You can learn more about that at readuncommon. com to try to get early awareness for the book, which I hope will help a lot of people where I go and do a deep dive on the five mountains.

[00:48:19] Mark Divine: Of personal mastery physical mental emotional intuitional and spiritual uncommon simple principles for an extraordinary life Check it out at read uncommon. com And thank you for your support and being part of the change you want to see in this world Divine out. Thank you so much, Sahil. This has been a really awesome conversation.

[00:48:40] Mark Divine: Thank you. We honor you. It was a blessing, 

[00:48:41] Sohale Sizar: really. I’m very grateful for you, so. Me too. Thank you for. We always 

[00:48:45] Mark Divine: end with hoo yah, like that’s Navy SEAL word for, for me, it means we got this, in gratitude. 

[00:48:52] Sohale Sizar: I wish I was a Navy SEAL, so I could also say it too, but. 

[00:48:55] Mark Divine: Well, I’ve got some training that could kind of set you on that path.

[00:48:58] Mark Divine: Yeah, we did talk about a six-pack earlier. 

[00:48:59] Sohale Sizar: Thank you so much, Mark. Awesome. I appreciate it. It was a pleasure.


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