EPISODE 358
Jay Glazer
How to Turn Depression and Anxiety Into Motivation

Mark speaks with Jay Glazer, iconic NFL sports insider and founder of MVP (Merging Vets and Players). Jay speaks out about mental health stigma and recently published his new book, Unbreakable: How I Turned My Depression and Anxiety into Motivation and You Can Too.

Jay Glazer
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Show Notes

Today, Commander Divine speaks with Jay Glazer, iconic NFL sports insider, mental health advocate, and founder of MVP (Merging Vets and Players). Jay’s mission is to change the narrative on anxiety, depression and self worth. In this episode, Jay shares his relentless mindset and gives us a look into his personal mental health journey that culminated in publishing his new book, Unbreakable: How I Turned My Depression and Anxiety into Motivation and You Can Too.

Key Takeaways:

  • Find your fight team. At 52, Jay spars every day because he loves the support of his fight team. Whether he wins or loses doesn’t matter; what matters is having that team around him for support. There are so many potential teams around us that can help lift us up and walk this walk together. Jay says you can develop a fight team anytime in your life (he didn’t develop his fighting mindset until he was in his 30s).
  • Do more than the competition. The magic bullet in life is to find out who the best is in your field, and do more than them. It’s hard, but the alternative is never seeing your dreams come true. When you look at the SEALS, great athletes, and great businessmen, they all have that common thread: they outwork everybody.
  • No trauma equals no growth. Trauma and success are intertwined. Trauma is actually an opportunity for growth; it’s what allows us to be sensitive and whole. So our trauma actually provides extreme motivation for growth, because we can’t have growth without trauma.
  • We just rent these bodies, but our souls live on forever. Jay had a near-death experience that gave him a profound new lease on life. He chooses to believe that the physical is not all about us and that the soul lives on forever.
  • How can you be different? When Jay started working at Fox, he decided that he wanted to be different in two different ways: A, he was going to out-work the world, and B, he was going to be different from other reporters who used their pens as weapons. Instead, Jay pledged to start “give-give” relationships with the players and coaches he covered. As a result, many of them became his biggest donors to open up more MVP chapters.
  • Loyalty is a lost art. Jay makes a point to always be doing for other people. Too many people have relationships where they want something in return. Jay figures that if he does a lot for others and gets even 10-15% of people in his life who would do the same for him, then he’s assembled a pretty good little fight team.
  • We create chaos because we’re afraid of calm. Jay says that he thrives in chaos, but is terrible at being calm. We create a lot of chaos for ourselves because we’re afraid of the calm.
  • Laughter is the best antidote to panic. Jay has a lot of panic attacks on TV and has tried breathwork and other techniques to handle them. But he says that laughter is often the best medicine. “The faster I laugh, the faster it gets me out of a panic attack. So if you watch me on Fox, NFL Sunday or any TV show, and you see me jamming a quick joke, it’s because I’m having a panic attack.”

Quotes:

“There’s so many teams around us that we don’t realize are right there to help lift us up and walk this walk together.”

“Mindset with a little bit of skill will win over skill with no mindset any day.”

“The magic bullet in life is to find out who the best is in whatever field that is, and do more than them.”

“It’s easy for people like us to sit there and kind of have a pity party. I gotta take every single little scar and turn it around and be proud of it. Or else I’m gonna be in a scary situation. And that’s what I’m trying to do for all of us.”

“A pity party is always a party of one. If there’s anyone else at the party, they’re not your friends.”

“I’m not perfect, I’m flawed. I’m still on my journey, and I’m hoping that by doing all these things… it allows me to get you know, some love from the outside in as I’m trying to work on my love from the inside out. And I hope they meet in the middle one day. I won’t stop working till they do, I won’t stop trying meds that maybe work, maybe they don’t. I won’t stop trying the next latest thing. Because fuck, I deserve it.”

“I said, I think I have more to do. If you could step in here and help me then I promise I will do a lot more for this world. So this book, for me and MVP for me, are my ways of keeping my promise to God. And a lot of people make that deal when shit’s going south. And also when things go their way they forget about that like, okay, I’m good now, and then forget about it. I’m not gonna do that. Loyalty is me, it’s who I am. Whether it’s with a friend or my best friend or God or an athlete or my training partner, whatever it is. I made that promise and this book and these charities are my way of keeping up my end of the bargain.”

“I always say, we just rent these bodies, but our souls live on forever. And that’s why I tell like our boys to have lost brothers and sisters, overseas or friends I lost. I still have cocktails with them, I still raise a glass to them, like, I still think they’re here next to me. And that’s my choice. Like, you have to make that choice to view it that way. But I do think, I choose to believe that the physical is not all about us, that, you know, it’s that soul that lives on forever and ever.”

“So the why for me was, again, when I said a long time ago, I walked in that giant locker room, how could I be different? A, I was gonna out work the world and I’ll bring it back full circle here with us. But the other thing was, I’m going to be different than everybody else. And being different for me was, man, all these reporters back then used their pen as a weapon. I’m gonna start relationships, because that’s what I know how to do. And that’s what I need, for my own mental health. Teammates for me coming all angles. So it could be the players that I covered. It could be the coaches that I covered it did, they became my brothers. A lot of them became our biggest donors to open up more MVP chapters to help out a lot of these football players. So you know, for me, somebody says, What did somebody else get out of giving it to you? Nothing, except we have the way you have relationships. They’re supposed to give.”

“I’m always doing for everybody else. That’s the thing, like, loyalty is a lost art. And I lay out in the book about how you know, relationships. Too many people just have kind of relationships where they want something in return. I don’t, I didn’t ask for this. But I do so much for everybody else. And I go, You know what, if I get 10 or 15% of people in my life who would do the same thing back? I got a pretty damn good little fight team with me.”

“I’m not afraid to be on TV. Like I’m like you. Like everybody in the SEALs. I’m sure you’re great in fucking chaos. I’m great in chaos. I suck in calm. We create a lot of chaos, because we’re afraid of the calm. When I’m on TV, I love it. So I don’t understand why I would have a panic attack or an anxiety attack. But it’s been every single week. I’ll know now to do breath work. I’ll immediately say to myself, you’re not in danger. You’re safe. Do some breath work. But the faster I could laugh, the faster it gets me out of that panic attack. So if you watch me on Fox, NFL Sunday or any TV show, and you see me like jamming a quick joke, it’s because I’m having a panic attack.”

Mark Divine 0:04
Coming up on the Mark Divine show,

Jay Glazer 0:07
Loyalty is a lost art. People just have kind of relationships where they want something in return. I don’t, I didn’t ask for this. But I do so much for everybody else. And I go, You know what, if I get 10 or 15% of people in my life who would do the same thing back? I got a pretty damn good little life to work with.

Mark Divine 0:27
Hi, this is Mark Divine. And this is the Mark Divine show. On this show, I explore what it means to be fearless through the lens of the world’s most inspirational, compassionate and resilient leaders. My guests include notables from all walks of life, martial arts grandmasters, military leaders, high powered CEOs, and even media personalities. In each episode, I distill the remarkable experience of my guests into actionable insights to help you create the most compassionate and courageous life of your own.

Today, I’m going to be talking about adversity, honesty, trust, fighting back to overcome the gray area of doubt, fear, depression anxiety, with my guest, Jay Glazer. Jay is an NFL sports announcer and MMA coach and actor, founder of the MVP organization, which is merging vets and players. He created the unbreakable performance training facilities, and recently wrote a book called Unbreakable, where he offers his honest in your face advice and insights from his fight through depression, anxiety, his successful career in NFL journalism in business, as well as his work with the military vets struggling with post traumatic stress.

Super stoked to have Jay here today, Jay, thanks for joining me. Before we get into some of the wickedly cool things that you’ve experienced in your life, give us a little bit about where you came from. And what are some of the childhood experiences that kind of shaped who you were? Where do you think your struggle with anxiety and depression came from?

Jay Glazer 2:00
So first of all, you’re Unbeatable. Me, Unbreakable. We both have learned how to build ourselves from the inside out. I mean, we’re both good at coaching and building people up from the inside out. It’s interesting, you asked, you know, we both probably have this from childhood, I blocked out most of my childhood. And it wasn’t until I started doing this work, that I started trying to let the little little guy in me kind of start to heal. So as a little kid, this depression, anxiety. I don’t know any other memory. But this, like my earliest childhood memory, I just remember living, what I call the grey. And living the grey fucking sucks, it is depression and anxiety. And we have tools now, and I’m obviously off on this crusade to give us words, to talk about it more. We didn’t have those words when we were growing up. I didn’t know what the hell it was. I just knew I was sad all the time. And miserable, and I was tiny. So I was always fighting, I was always fighting and fighting and fighting, and swimming upstream. And you know, for all those years, I was kind of fighting to get away from the gray and to see some blue and feel some love. And that got me to go do all these things that I’ve done in the rest of my life. I’m proud of my scars, and whether they’re physical scars, I always used to brag about my physical scars. Now I’m trying to brag about my mental scars. So I don’t want to look at it like oh, man, yeah, yeah this kid was always loved and felt unloved, growing up, because he was unloved and felt unloved growing up, he’s been able to use that to go do such great shit to get some love from the outside in.

Mark Divine 3:23
Yeah, well, man, that’s an incredible gift to help people find that in themselves, because it’s not common. And even in a psychology or therapy profession, you know, there’s a tendency to reinforce the victimhood a little bit, you know, and I think this is why like, I love the work you’re doing with vets, because vets don’t want to feel like victims, they want to get out of that shit. And so the VA, which treats him like a victim and doses them up, that’s one of the things killing them. So you don’t remember a time where you were never in the gray.

Jay Glazer 3:51
I got depression, anxiety, add bipolar,

Mark Divine 3:54
You got a lot of frickin acronyms going on there.

Jay Glazer 3:58
Yeah, I’ve got LMNOP. So in the book, I wrote a game plan, if you will, that coaches how to get through the gray and see some blue. And one of the biggest things is, have a team. That’s why I’ve always joined fight teams and you know, I’m 52 I think.

Mark Divine 4:14
I think it’s okay to forget your age. That’s actually a good thing, I think

Jay Glazer 4:18
I’m still training everyday sparring every day. I’ll do it forever because I need that fight team. I need this for me to like, I don’t really give a shit if I get my ass kicked. I just kind of embrace this fight. I care less about the win or the loss. I just enjoy the fight. And it just makes me feel special when you have that team. Now not everybody has to have a fight team. Yeah, but man, there’s so many teams around us that we don’t realize right there to help lift us up and walk this walk together with.

Mark Divine 4:41
Yeah, I love that. You said everyone needs a team. It doesn’t have to be a fight team and you don’t have to win. You’re lucky if you win 50% of the time. Right. And the winning gave us great confidence and losing gave us great humility. And I think that fighting is great for that, but you know, not having to win or to feel like you’re not good enough if you’re not, you know, ranked or something like that.

Jay Glazer 5:03
That’s where a lot of athletes look, I have a gym over in LA called unbreakable. We have a whole fight team over there. And we try and football players and basketball players and hockey players, all these different pro athletes in kind of the fighter mentality. And, you know, I always tell these guys, this sport, a lot of guys kind of get in trouble, man, they hug the wind so much that a lot of times they fight or play not to lose, right? And they’re so afraid to lose because, look, listen, being famous ain’t the same as being great. And they all have so much fame now because of social media. And it’s so afraid to lose it. So they kind of lose that warrior mindset, they lose that, you know, hunting the fight instead. So the way we do it, again, my training partners are like Randy Couture, and Chuck Liddell, but we kind of took Randy’s style, and we ramped it up. So the way we come at you, and this is same way I live life. Same way I go at business man, we are just relentless, relentless, relentless. We just go, pace, pace, pace, like we don’t stop.

I’m not exactly an elusive feller. So you’re gonna hit me about a billion times, but we just keep going and going and going until somebody says, Holy fuck, get him off me, get Randy Couture off me, get Jay Glazer off me. And we just don’t stop. And that’s what I’m talking about, hunting the fight instead of the win. And then also like, man, we have this thing like it’s our honor to fight hurt. Yeah, like, I have so many injuries because I’m a shitty fighter. My friends are great. I suck. I can coach, but I’m not a good fighter. So as a result, I’ve got a ton of injuries from wrestling guys. I just really, you know, NFL players that are 100 pounds heavier than me that I have no, I still have no business doing. But in my mind, every time I feel something that hurts on me? I’m like, man, it’s my honor to go out there and wrestle Andrew Whitworth right now who’s 6’8, 330 with, or have a torn labrum over here. Like it’s my honor to fight hurt. Then I get off on that. I get so excited. And as I start continue to ramp this up on people, you could kind of see them start to break and it’s ubreakable, you could feel they kind of look at us like fuck is wrong with these guys.

Mark Divine 6:59
You know, mindset with a little bit of skill will win over skill with no mindset any day.

Jay Glazer 7:03
Yes. And pace for me is everything pace and violence in those situations, obviously different situations and business. But it’s the same mindset. We just go and go and go. I don’t have a lot of skill. But I got a lot of motherfucking me where it just doesn’t stop. And eventually, like I said, I just want people to look at it and go, Oh my gosh, I didn’t sign up for this. And then I kind of forget that I’m tired. Because I start to see things shift over and you could see behind their eyes going, Why is this dude not stopping? Right? I didn’t sign up for this. And that again, it kind of applies to everything in life.

Mark Divine 7:34
Yeah, I was just gonna say you just kind of elicited probably like four or five principles for just success in anything. And if you’re just like any principle, they can’t have limitations, right? But let’s just use one. Life is a fight, right? You got to fight for what you want. You got to fight for your honor, you got to fight for, you know other people to try to take your honor and take shit from you or you know, you gotta a fight for a position or a job or you know, whatever it is success.

Jay Glazer 7:58
And I didn’t always have it. I didn’t get it till I was about 30 ish or something along those lines. When I met these guys. Yeah, so you could develop it anytime you could learn it from people.

Mark Divine 8:06
What do you think, is the major kind of secret sauce to learning that relentlessness? If you’re not an MMA fighter, like, you could say to the listener, oh, yeah, just go join an MMA gym and you’ll learn it, and chances are you might. How would someone do it in just everyday life? Not just for MMA fighting.

Jay Glazer 8:24
The magic bullet in life is to find out who the best is in whatever field that is, and do more than them.

Mark Divine 8:28
That’s it, do more than, but you didn’t say do better than them. You said do more.

Jay Glazer 8:32
Do more than them. So I started covering the Giants in 1993. And look, the first 11 years of my career. Living in New York City I made 9,750 bucks a year. Broke as shit. I understand the broke side and the unbreakable side. And you know, I got rejected more than any human I’ve ever met in my quest to get to where I am. And as part of my job, is to just get rejected over and over. And I think I started forming that fight of, I walked in that giant locker room and I said, I’ll be the last motherfucker standing here. And then I said if these guys work 40 hours a week… Okay, I’m not gonna outwork them by a little. I’m gonna outwork them by a lot. I’m gonna go 100 hours. I know it sounds insane. But if you want to be great, it’s the hours that you put it that no one’s watching. So those guys were there 40 hours, and I could have been there 42 or 44, I’d outwork them by a lot. And it’s exhausting. So a lot of people look at that and say, Well, man, there’s so much work in that. Well, you can’t have one or the other. You can’t sit there Go, man. Why are my dreams not coming true. You know, I’m not willing to put all this work in. But you look at people like you. You look at all the SEALS, you look at all the great athletes and great businessmen. They do have that common thread. They outwork everybody. And a lot of times you’ll see things differently but you’ll be authentic to who you are, you know, live and die with you. Not somebody else.

Mark Divine 9:48
And through that you start to redefine what heart is. You start to redefine what gets you exhausted. And so what makes someone exhausted in a 40 hour work person is going to be like, this is hard, and I’m exhausted when you’re not there until you’re at hour 94 and a half.

Jay Glazer 10:04
No, no, I was exhausted at an hour 30. But I’m gonna keep going until 94 and a half.

Mark Divine 10:08
Yeah. But what I’m trying to say is, yeah, you might feel that. But then you said this in terms of the fight, what fighting teaches you is that once you get over that first hump, then you have this long road of just like, I got this, and you’re just relentless. I love that term. And you don’t get tired. But then there is an actual limit to the body. And so you need a little bit of recovery, then you get back in the ring, so to speak, or back in the mission or in the training. And you’ve got a whole nother 100 hours in you. And that’s what you call pacing, you learn that, how to do that yin and yang, your push, push, push, and then you just take a break. And that could be as simple as a breath or, you know, circling around if you get your bearings, and then you attack. And most people don’t know that, they just keep on throwing their energy out until they’re done. And then they’re like, done, they tap.

Jay Glazer 10:52
So, what we’ll do is, again, we throw to go, I told my guys too like, no one’s gonna win or lose a decision on scorecards with us, when someone’s going to Canvas and I’m okay if it’s us. I would rather be them, but I’m okay. But you know, essentially you say about the recovery part of it. We recover you as hard as we train you. At Unbreakable.

Mark Divine 11:12
I love that. And how do you do that? Just tell us how you do that.

Jay Glazer 11:15
Man, we try and get the latest, greatest recovery. So we’re the first gym, certainly in LA, or maybe in California that had a cryo chamber all those years ago, we had the IVs before anybody else were doing it. I actually put a mental health professional in there now. So I’ve got a therapist inside the gym. So are we trying to, again, we got to build you from the inside out. It’s mind, body and soul. So early on. Look, I started wrestling in 82 boxing and like 88 or 89 and mixed martial arts from about 99. And I’m from Jersey, so I used to do the meathead workouts constantly. And I used to just think, okay, more and more and more and more. And it really wasn’t till 2004 that a guy named Luke Richardson started coaching me, who’s Brock Lesnar’s coach now who actually, I had linked him up with kind of a job as the head strength coach of the Jaguars. And then the Broncos and in the NFL, and he got himself with Texans, but he was the first one that got me to protect me from myself. And I just kept wanting to train, train train, he’s like, listen, listen, he uses the adage of like a car, if you just keep revving that car, give it an oil change and redo the tires, it’s just going to break down. And I really didn’t know that again until you know, 2004, or something along those lines. So part of the unbreakable, when you come in unbreakable, we have like a four part system. The first part is we open your hips up, we really loosen your hips, because we all talk about core. But as you strengthen your core, you kind of get tighter and tighter. So we loosen your core, right. The second thing we do is a performance workout that you lift. Third part, your cardio for us as some sort of fighting, and fighting for us again, it’s more spiritual than anything else. It’s having this fight team around you. And so you could fight outside or indoors. And the fourth part is required is recovery. So we give you a line with GNC and they give us all our proteins and amino acids, everything so we tailor it to you. We have normal text, we have the infrared sauna, we have bodywork, we have this laser there, we have all this stuff, but it’s required in your workout. So we want to really pre cover you and recover you as hard as we train you.

Mark Divine 13:16
Yeah, I would go so far as to say that it’s not just recovery that’s happening with those, but it’s also training the mind, training, the you know, the emotions, of course, the team training is a big part of that, combined with a little bit of breathwork and mantra or mental development, you know, sitting in a sauna, and stacking a practice like that is not just recovery. There’s a whole lot more going on. That’s awesome.

Jay Glazer 13:38
And that’s why I said pre covery, pre covery and recovery. Anybody who gets to this level, like pro athletes, the pro sports, you got to be fucked up going in to push yourself to that level. And I’m saying this in a good way. I’m not saying fucked up in a damaged way, I’m saying fucked up in an empowered way.

Jay Glazer 13:54
Like, you know, that’s the scars that we have what you had early on, that got you to now not only join the teams, but to be of service to the SEAL teams. I mean, that’s incredible, dude. So, you know, look, our trauma, and our successes are all intertwined. It’s how we use them. And I try never to let our vets and our athletes get mad at me also sometimes, but I never let them have an out. Like, oh, man, this fucked me up. So as a result of this, this is no, no, no, you got this plane in the NFL. You got this fighting in the UFC, you got this being a fucking warrior saving people. That’s why you got this right, and not fuck, I’m fucked up because of this. And until they give us a solution to our issues, I’m gonna work my ass off so we don’t have that kind of out. It’s easy for people like us to sit there and kind of have a pity party. I gotta take every single little scar and turn it around and be proud of it. Or else I’m gonna be in a scary situation. And that’s what I’m trying to do for all of us.

Mark Divine 14:56
No, I’m with you. A pity party is always a party of one. If there’s anyone else at the party, they’re not your friends. Get out of the pity party. I love that you said trauma and success are intertwined. 100% agree with that. Trauma is your growth, right trauma is the opportunity, it’s what allows us to be sensitive and to be whole. Because, you know, we get to look at our lives and say, Wow, I’m not whole because of that. And I can be, I really want to be whole. And so it provides extreme motivation for growth. So, no trauma equals no growth. But you know, I think most people have trauma, if not everyone, and they just are in denial of it.

Jay Glazer 15:33
You know, in the book about the gray, and I’m clinical, like I’m diagnosed with clinical, all that, you know, the depression, anxiety and all that. I just did a podcast with somebody and they said, Well, 2% of the country has depression, anxiety, I’m like, 2% Fuck you getting that from?

Mark Divine 15:50
Let me throw a stat at you. 44% in society is obese. Everyone who is obese is dealing with anxiety, depression, because it’s mental. Your brain shrinks when you get obese. Everything’s out of balance, all your neuropeptides, all your neuro chemicals, everything’s out of balance. And so obesity is not just the body, it’s of the mind.

Jay Glazer 16:09
Well, let’s go on top of that. Let’s add that plus, okay, what’s the worst thing that vets could do? Suicide? Yes. But isolation leads to that. Yes, that’s the worst thing that could happen. But we’re always trying to get them not to isolate. So it doesn’t go down that road.

Mark Divine 16:26
Right, right. And our whole world is being set up for isolation.

Jay Glazer 16:29
We as a society, we were just told to socially distance from the world, right? So whether you’re clinical or not, we were just fucking told to isolate from the world. And then add on that social media these days. Like, man, we’re comparing ourselves to everybody else’s filtered. filtered. It’s not real, fraction of one second of a day. We all think our lives fucking suck. We’re looking and go, man, how come I wasn’t invited to that party? How come my food doesn’t look like that? Where’s my love? Where’s this? How come I’m not so successful? We think our lives suck.

Mark Divine 17:01
And on top of that, Jay, we’re taught to look outside of ourselves for the answers, we’re taught to look outside for measures of success, for meaning, for identity. And so that starts pretty much right after birth. You know, it’s how our parents teach us because it’s what they were taught. It’s how, you know, education teaches. So that’s like the ultimate malaise that we are taught to look for meaning outside of results.

Jay Glazer 17:27
And now, it’s fake. So of course, we’re gonna have, you know, an uphill battle. And the other interesting thing you said right here, just about we’re kind of talking about vulnerability. My life is one big contradiction. So I train all these athletes and fighters to never show hurt, never show pain, constantly be relentless, relentless, relentless, don’t take a stool in between rounds, get on the other end. And in life here, we’re talking about, you know, being of service. If I didn’t have all these traumas, and I didn’t have this dark, fucking shitty ass gray that I wake up with every single day of my life, it gives me this forum to be incredibly vulnerable. So in life, I want to stick a stool, I want us to show that we’re hurting. I want it to be okay to say, I’m not doing okay today, hey, I’m fucked up today, I want us to be able to lean on our teammates, for when the roommates in our head aren’t talking nice to each other, when we’re not feeling love. So it’s kind of one big contradiction there. But I think the only way, you know mental health is so reactive, we got to get a kind of proactive now where we talk about it, and we tackle it on a daily basis or an hour by hour basis. Same way we do our bodies and when we train or else we’re gonna be a world of trouble here, because we’re comparing ourselves to everybody else’s filtered fraction of a second or because we’re reading so much shit on Twitter, all this hate on Twitter.

Mark Divine 18:46
Yeah, it’s a good idea to turn all that shit off. So I agree with 100%. What you were saying the answer to happiness is internal, like we’ve said, and then it’s to learn how to curate the quality of your mind and emotions moment to moment by separating yourself from them. That’s meditation. That’s what meditation does, which is the ultimate cure for depression and anxiety is to basically stop being attached to the thoughts and emotions that are driving the physiology of your fucking body. It’s not easy Jay at all right? And there are also some interventions that help like for TBI, like you’ve been bonked on the head a few times. I’ve been bonked, every military guy should get treatment for potential TBI or for TBI because they have it and so you can do electric stim psychedelics, you know, all this stuff.

Jay Glazer 19:30
Treatment, like you just said, Yes. Look, there’s too many guys who are just getting… like look, I know I’m fucked up. But don’t tell me where I’m fucked up without giving a solution. You need that before there were these treatments you’re talking about. They would just come in and I had a football player, going to keep his name out of it. But he went and got checked out for his brain and I said, “What are you going for?” And he said, “Well, I just want to see,” I said, “Why? Like, we know you’re fucked up.” And he goes, and he comes back out and he says, “Man, I’m fucked up. I thought I had five or six concussions my whole career. They told me I had 40 to 50.” And I said, “What are they doing about it?” He goes, “Well, nothing but it’s good to know.” And he’s like, “Yeah, now I notice that the computer has been harder to read.” And I’m like, “But it wasn’t yesterday, until they told you how fucked up you are!” So until you give me a solution, don’t tell me. Luckily there are solutions now. Like you’re saying, meditation is becoming so much more accepted. Therapy is becoming a lot more accepted, you’re saying the electric stim, the psychedelics, you love hyperbaric chambers.

Mark Divine 20:29
Yes, yes, same here. I’ve got one in my office here.

Here we’re gonna take a short break here from the Mark Divine show to hear a short message from one of our partners. This episode, the Mark Divine show is sponsored by Athletic Greens. Athletic Greens is a product I use literally every day. I started using it when I met the founders at a Spartan pod fest a few years ago, and learned that one delicious scoop of Athletic Greens has 75 high quality minerals, vitamins, whole food source superfoods, probiotics and adaptogens. It helps me start my day right. That special blend of ingredients supports my gut health, my nervous system, my immune system, helps improve my energy, recovery, focus, and longevity, all of that. I think that Athletic Greens is like a nutritional insurance policy. The company is amazing too. They’ve got over 7000 5 star reviews on their products and they’re a climate neutral certified company. In 2020, they purchased carbon credits to support projects protecting old growth rainforest, and that’s near and dear to my heart. So it’s time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition. Just one scoop and a cup of water or with your smoothie everyday. That’s it, no need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health. Athletic Greens is going to give you a free one year supply of immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs of Athletic Greens with your first purchase. So go visit athletic greens.com forward slash divine that’s athletic greens.com/divine Take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.

This episode of the Mark Divine show is also sponsored by Kettle and Fire. Kettle and Fire have made me a believer in bone broth. I love their beef bone broth sipping it out of the mug adding some salt or spices or lemon juice tastes delicious as a mid afternoon energy boost or a late evening snack to kill my cravings. 11 grams of collagen protein per serving, it’s got great amino boosting amino acids, really healthy for your gut skin, hair and nails. This nourishing delicious savory healing all of that. The highest quality ingredients these guys use nothing artificial only organic herbs, spices and veggies. It’s as delicious as it sounds. So check it out at Kettle and Fire.com and use the coupon code Divine D IV ind at checkout use the coupon code Divine at checkout for 20% off that’s Kettleandfire.com forward slash Divine and now back to the show.

You;ve got your training center with a bunch of this shit. My friend Dave Asprey is starting like these healing longevity centers that will have an HBO T and infrared, eventually you’ll be able to go in and do ketamine there. But right now, you can actually do ketamine assisted therapy, which has had amazing success.

Jay Glazer 23:17
I do it. It helps. Listen, and here’s the thing too. I’ve been on over 30 antidepressant, anti anxiety and bipolar meds, I just haven’t found that work. But I’ll keep trying, like, I’m going to keep trying and especially, I’ll always be on a quest to do things. So I’ve done the psychedelics, done the ketamine, done the ketamine spray, that’s worked for me. It’s actually one of the only things, and I don’t want to come on here and…

Mark Divine 23:37
No, this is important because, you know, vets, they need to know about this stuff.

Jay Glazer 23:42
Yeah, it’s one of the only things it’s gotten me to see some blue, like to go oh, this is the way life’s supposed to be. The psychedelics I’ve done, it’s all with therapists. The psychedelics I’ve done have got me to really be able to unpack some my childhood, and then grieve it, where Jay Glazer, me, kind of go back in and take care of little Jason Glazer, because he needs to get taken care of, because he never was emotionally in that way. He’s just beaten down so bad. To the point where when I first started fighting, I felt that’s where I belonged, in a cage. But I used to go there to lose, I felt like I deserved to get beat down the cage. And my dad didn’t beat me or anything like that. It’s just what my self worth was. I had such little value. It’s an everyday thing for me, every day in my life, I wake up, I wake up in the grey and I’ve got to do these things you’re talking about, meditate or this or that to try to figure out a way to add a little self worth and love myself up from the inside out. I’m not perfect, I’m flawed. I’m still on my journey, and I’m hoping that by doing all these things… it allows me to get you know, some love from the outside in as I’m trying to work on my love from the inside out. And I hope they meet in the middle one day. I won’t stop working till they do, I won’t stop trying meds that maybe work, maybe they don’t. I won’t stop trying the next latest thing. Because fuck, I deserve it.

Mark Divine 25:07
Yeah, you do. And I’m right there with you. I love training. And I consider all of what you just said training, right? It’s just training, love, right? Because if you’re not training your mind the world’s training for you, and the world has really fucked up and trained us all and kind of in shame and, and trauma and all that. And so we got to take control back. And then once you take control back, then it’s a lifetime of work to unwind the shit that has been done for some people and for others who are I think lucky. Or maybe they were just ready for this. They find it very quickly. Or at least they claim to. I’m not sure it’s actually true. They’re lucky. They’re lucky. Yeah.

Jay Glazer 25:45
I’ve had people that do TMI, and they’re just like, man, changed them fast. And I’m like, fuck, I’m so jealous. I’m happy for them. But I’m jealous. It’s got me to see my why a lot. And the DMT was good for me also. So that’s actually kind of where I got the, the term the grey from.
Doing that with a therapist and I went through this gray maze. And when my depression anxiety, everything hits, I feel it physically bad and the left side of my gut, I feel bad. My ribcage and like my joints really ache like I’ve been in a 50 round fight and it’s raining for like a week.

Mark Divine 26:19
Have you done any somatic therapy? Where it’s like, they work with the energy and the physiology and try to release trauma.

Jay Glazer
Like reiki?

Mark Divine
Reiki is a little bit different somatic therapy is where they’re working with the actual content. But they’re finding in your body like you just described, where trauma is being stored in your body. So a somatic therapist would be able to go in and release that.

Jay Glazer 26:41
Okay, I’ll get on it today. I love that. But that the DMT thing I’m going through, I was going through this gray maze, and all sudden, boom, I come to the beautiful blue, incredible colors. And I started smiling like, harder than I’ve ever smiled. And then the therapist and the girlfriend that I was dating at the time, I hear them laughing so I kind of started coming out. And they’re like, why are you smiling that big? And I said, Well, I saw this beautiful blue and all these great, beautiful colors. And then I started crying. The therapist said why are you crying? I’m gonna try not to cry right now, as I say this, because I realized, like, my whole life is that me and that gray maze. That’s it. And bam, I had that one fraction of that light. And that’s where I deserve to be like, that’s where I want to be. But I feel bad for that guy, this Jason Glazer, that stuck in that gray maze. That’s where I got the grey from. And I never told anybody that.

Mark Divine 27:46
That’s a great story. I had a different experience on DMT. But it was still pretty profound. Where I wasn’t ready for it. I wouldn’t allow myself to die. So what happened the guy, the same guy that, you know, my friends go down to Mexico, he came up and he’s like I said, you know, I wanted to experience something. And he brought, you know, basically the DMT, the desert toad. And I wasn’t ready for it. Like he sent me instructions. But I was being a little arrogant. Back then I was like, I’m a Navy Seal, you know, bring it on. Right? I got this. That doesn’t work so well with this. I’d had a big burrito a little while earlier. Yeah. And so he gives me this stuff. As you know, it’s like, you go straight from zero to hero, and the world is just expanding in this massive, you know, explosion. Geometric symbols like, I’m like the Big Bang. But then the Big Bang turned into the big collapse. And then went the other way. And I started, I was going down this chute, and I was dying. And I knew I was dying. And I didn’t trust that it was just the death of my ego, I literally felt my body was going to die. And so I did something he’d never seen before right in the middle. Like in the early stages of this experience. I yanked myself out of it, ripped myself up to my knees and played Navy SEAL, started box breathing. And I’m staring at this guy. And there’s three of them. Like, I was like, as long as I just keep my eye on one of these characters. Eventually, I knew it was going to reintegrate. And I came out of it. And I said, Dude, that was incredible. I get it. I want to come back and do that again sometime because my ego wasn’t ready for that.

Jay Glazer
And have you?

Mark Divine
No, I haven’t actually. I’ve done a lot of other things…

Jay Glazer 29:22
Why haven’t you gone back to that?

Mark Divine 29:24
I just haven’t had the opportunity to, interestingly.

Jay Glazer 29:27
No, fuck that. You do not seem like the type of guy to say, “Well, I don’t have the opportunity.”

Mark Divine 29:31
Well, I know, I just wait for those things to present themselves. I’ve never actually talked about this in a podcast. But I figure, if I’m going to encourage my military friends to go do this, then I’ve got to experience it myself.

Jay Glazer 29:44
That’s why I do everything.

Mark Divine 29:49
Yeah, I put my money where my mouth is, or I eat my own dog food. So I got to experience it, I can’t just talk about it.

Jay Glazer 29:53
Well, there’s two things here I want to unpack with you because one, you just said it though. You said man I realized it was my ego dying, which could be a great thing.

Mark Divine 30:01
Yeah, that was after the fact, I kind of knew it while I was there, you know.

Jay Glazer 30:06
That’s why you should definitely do it, now you have nothing to be afraid of like, okay, I know how much it’s gonna help me. So man, if I’m you, why wait, shit call this week, get it done and then you can talk about it and help others like, that’s how I am like, if I gotta do something, it’s immediate, I’m going to do it now. And then, you know, the other part is, I’m willing to do and try all these things because I know I can pull myself out of it. Suicide for me is dark and hardest ever been, will not be an option for me. I try and preach this hard and, you know, take it for what it is and may sound a little callous. But man, I’m just not going to do that to somebody else. And we’ve been a lot of successful in our charity, MVP, or merging vets and players charity, where I talk about this, our choice about life and death. And I understand the pain part. And it’s, I’m in pain every fucking day in my life. But I don’t want to put pain on my brothers and sisters and my family and friends in the rest of the world.

Mark Divine 30:56
That’s where suicide is a selfish act, because a lot of times, you know, folks who are in that they can’t see that. They can’t see how it’s going to hurt everyone else.

Jay Glazer 31:04
When we have these meetings together at MVP, we’ll have 90 ex military ex pro athletes in a room together. This story I wrote in the book was one where one of our vets, a friend of his was supposed to meet him on a Saturday. He called him on Friday, my buddy didn’t take his call because he was like fuck, I’m going to see him Saturday, and his teammate ended up killing himself. And he just blamed himself so hard. And, man, it’s hard for me to talk about because it’s just not fair to him. He’s telling the story, and the whole room was crying. So I said, Alright, show of hands here. How many of y’all attempted the same thing? I mean, freakin 75% of the room goes up. 70 hands go up. They’ve all people who have attempted suicide in this room. I said, Okay. This is what you would have left behind. Whatever afterlife you believe in? You think your buddy is up there right now seeing everybody in this room cry? Saying to themselves yes! Look what I did, everybody. Right, or do you think he’s up there like no, no, no, fuck. I didn’t mean to do this. What have I done? No, no, no, I wish I could have a do over. Well, this is your chance to have a do over, seeing what you’ve left behind right here. That’s your do over right there. So don’t leave the shit behind for us. And we’ve been pretty remarkable in keeping our crew alive in these cases. And look, again, I know it’s hard. There’s a lot of pain. What you guys have seen. I’ve just been in a cage in a TV studio. But you guys have seen I don’t know, with my mental health issues, how much I would be able to unpack that or not. But man I know we need you around to help the next fucking crew unpack it.

Mark Divine 32:35
I agree with you. And it’s a big big thing for the veteran community and active duty. I want to talk about a couple stories in your book. Just to prove to you that I read it – nah, I’m just kidding. The near death experience you had. I wanted to kind of unpack that a bit, like you aspirated, you vomited while going through surgery for your back. Double aspiration, both lungs, you described it and I knew this, but it’s very hard to survive that. Because the ammonia and all the infection shit, the really bad stuff that happens to your lungs. But while that was happening, you recited this experience where you kind of separated from your body and you saw yourself moving away from kind of like, there’s Jay over there. And that’s what’s happening. So what would you say was happening there? Did your soul leave your body?

Jay Glazer 33:19
I was dying.

Mark Divine 33:21
Yeah, we know that. Okay, yes, we could put a label to it right? You’re dying, whatever. But I’m talking let’s get a little bit more nuanced. Like what do you think was happening?

Jay Glazer 33:30
So to give people a little thing here, I went in again, I’ve been training these NFL players for years. One of my guys, man we’re wrestling Kyle Long’s fucking 6’9, 342 with boxes in his stomach. Him and there’s like three other guys, I ruptured my L 405, I’ve done it four times. And my dumbass will just keep going because again, I’m proud of my scars. And I’m honored to fight hurt, but you know when it gets to the point where you know my legs don’t work and I’m like alright, let me just go in epidurally and thoroughly clean that shit out and get right back there. I stopped eating six o’clock the evening before, I was going in at seven o’clock the next morning so I did everything you’re supposed to do. What I ate didn’t digest, I remember having indigestion.

Mark Divine 34:07
Yeah. Cuz you ate something that was not digestible. From what I read you had some frickin nasty burgers.

Jay Glazer 34:12
Yes, it was a Chinese restaurant that closed the next week. But it was like a gourmet place, it was bougie and shit in West Hollywood. I go in the next day, and they put me in a face cradle that was hollow. So it was like a bowl. So I don’t really understand that. I guess the anesthesiologist walked away and I threw up the entire meal from the night before. And I was already passed out. And so propofol did it right, it got me to throw up the whole meal and then I drowned in it the whole thing. So actually the reason why my voice is this raspy is because they shoved a tube down to you know trying to revive me, and they clipped my vocal cord. My voice wasn’t this raspy six and a half years ago, seven years ago. They kind of wake me up and they’re racing me up to the head of respiratory for Cedars Sinai, I don’t really understand what’s going on. I’m in a wheelchair with an oxygen mask on. And my emergency contact is Randy Couture. So I kind of really come to on this gurney. And there’s Randy Couture over me. And I’m like, well, if I’m dead, I know I ain’t in heaven, because Couture’s ass would not be here. So he’s like, Hey, man, and he’s trying to explain what’s going on. And I’m like, Dude, I don’t understand this pneumonia thing. Like I didn’t feel sick. I didn’t know what it was. He’s like no, it’s not that. It was funny. It’s the first day of NFL free agency, so I’m on my phone. So I’m literally trying to like, text or take home like, players are calling me and teams are calling me about signing this free agent or that free agent. And I got an oxygen mask on. I got IVs in and they got me in this emergency room. And you hear all these beep, beep beeps. And by the way, they propypholed me, but then woke me up a minute and a half later, when they revived me so I was still fucking knocked out.

So they kept telling Randy, could you please have Mr. Glazer get off his phone? This is serious. This is like life and death. And I’m like, fuck Randy. I gotta do my shit. But my oxygen at this point was somewhere in the low 80s and kept dropping and 70s. And it kept dropping. And then he kept kind of arguing with we’re trying to get me not to and he walked out the room. And when he walked out the room, my oxygen went down to 74. I know it got down to 60 at one point. You just kept hearing the beeps go louder, louder, louder. And I have my phone over here. Then all sudden shoop, that whole room goes. It was almost like a TV thing. Like, the room went about 10 feet away from me. So I saw it. I literally was like, This is it. So I started talking to God. And look, I’m a big God guy. And that’s me. That’s my choice. I choose to have faith. Because I don’t feel as alone. I don’t hurt anybody if I have faith or not, I’m not talking about pushing religion on you. It’s my choice. I don’t feel alone. So I started talking to God. And I said, I’m trying not to get emotional here. I said, God, I think I’m about to come see you. If I am. It’s okay. I hope I’ve done enough. But if not, I still think I have more to do here. And like I never asked God to help me with this job or get me this paycheck or that, I just I’ll do it. I just want ask God to like, I’m gonna go after it. I’m gonna get knocked down. I want to pick myself up, just brush me off. And let’s keep going

Right? So same thing I said, I think I have more to do. If you could step in here and help me then I promise I will do a lot more for this world. So this book, for me and MVP for me, are my ways of keeping my promise to God. And a lot of people make that deal when shit’s going south. And also when things go their way they forget about that like, okay, I’m good now, and then forget about it. I’m not gonna do that. Loyalty is me, it’s who I am. Whether it’s with a friend or my best friend or God or an athlete or my training partner, whatever it is. I made that promise and this book and these charities are my way of keeping up my end of the bargain.

Mark Divine 38:35
We’re going to take a short break here from the Mark Divine show to hear a short message from one of our partners. This episode of the Mark Divine show is sponsored by BetterHelp online therapy. Face it, relationships take work, especially the relationship you have with yourself. BetterHelp online therapy wants to remind you to take care of that most important relationship. BetterHelp is online therapy that offers videophone and live chat sessions with a therapist. You don’t have to see anyone on camera if you don’t want to. It’s much more affordable than in person therapy. You can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. I’ve been recommending therapy for years. It’s important for you to take care of your mental health, especially in these trying times. If you got a physical coach for your physical health. Why not a mental coach for your mental health. Give it a try and see why over 2 million people use BetterHelp online therapy. Mark Divine show listeners will get 10% off their first [email protected] forward slash Mark Divine again, that’s b e t t e r. H elp.com/Mark divine, don’t take your mental health for granted.

This episode of the Mark Divine show is sponsored by my friend Jordan Harbinger and his show called The Jordan Harbinger show. This is a podcast that you should definitely check out if you’d like to Mark Divine show you’re gonna love the Jordan Harbinger show. Jordan covers a wide range of topics each week to interviews with heavy hitting guests. There’s a ton of episodes that you’ll find interesting. Just go to his website, and you’ll find tons and tons of great episodes that you can check out. There’s an episode for everyone, no matter what you’re into cover stories like how a professional art forger made millions of dollars while being chased by the feds and the mafia. And he’s done an episode about birth control and how going on or off the pill can change elements of our personalities. His podcast covers a ton, but one constant is his ability to pull useful pieces of advice from his guests. I promise you, you’ll find something useful that you can apply to your own life. Whether that’s an actionable routine change that boosts your productivity, or just a slight mindset tweak that changes how you see the world. If you really enjoy my show, then I think you’re gonna enjoy the Jordan Harbinger show. search for the Jordan Harbinger show that’s H AR B as in boy, I N as in Nancy, and G E R on Apple, podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen can also go to Jordan harbinger.com Forward slash subscribe.

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Mark Divine
I have, as you can imagine, faced my death many times in the SEALs, training accidents in real life. And I had a parachute accident where I was literally about a half a second from burning in and I was having a similar conversation and my parachute just opens up and I hit the ground while I had it opened up. And half a second later I would have been dead. This is one of those ones that just, these things obviously shape us forever, right? You can’t unsee or hear or feel that stuff. It’s like obviously in psychedelics, you can’t unsee that shit, as I say a lot. So I was walking toward a firing range once. And it was just a training day. It’s cold, it’s early in the morning, I was in the first group of guys to go up and we’re just you know, this is already out of buds. And so we were casual about it, right? I mean serious with all the safety standards, but it wasn’t like there are structures breathing down my neck. And I suddenly felt someone put a hand on my shoulder and say stop, Mark. And I stopped. And as soon as that happened, one of my teammates had an accidental discharge. And a nine mil Ron just went whizzing by my right ear and like, and had I taken that next step it would have gone right in the back of my head. And I turned to see who my friend was and there was nobody there, of course. And I’m like, Holy fuck.

Jay Glazer 42:51
Wow, that’s incredible. You got to honor that, man. That’s cool.

Mark Divine 42:53
That was cool. And I’ve had so many experiences like that.

Jay Glazer 42:57
What do you think mine was, because I had been trying to, I don’t know, I would have liked to have unpacked it on the spot. It’s not easy. But I immediately put my phone down, shut my eyes and started talking to God.

Mark Divine 43:05
Many people who have those near death experiences or who get adept at astral travel, they describe that this consciousness exists independent of the brain’s reality. And this is something where like neuroscientists will like, look at us and say, You guys are nuts, that doesn’t really exist. It’s the brain creating that and the brain can only here’s the thing, Jay, here’s my proof of this, the brain can only create projections of things that it’s seen. And it didn’t see what you described, your brain has never seen what you just described. So it’s something more.

Jay Glazer 43:39
I always say, we just rent these bodies, but our souls live on forever. And that’s why I tell like our boys to have lost brothers and sisters, overseas or friends I lost. I still have cocktails with them, I still raise a glass to them, like, I still think they’re here next to me. And that’s my choice. Like, you have to make that choice to view it that way. But I do think, I choose to believe that the physical is not all about us, that, you know, it’s that soul that lives on forever and ever.

Mark Divine 44:04
What’s beautiful about this philosophy is that it becomes a self fulfilling proof of life, of how life is because if you know, belief is everything, right? The stories we tell ourselves create our reality. And if your story is based upon a bigger T truth of your experience that life is more than just this physical manifestation of this body brain. Then suddenly you get all this evidence that that is true.

Jay Glazer 44:29
I don’t need proof for things. I only need to know what I believe is my truth.

Mark Divine 44:33
Yeah, of what you believe, you’re a study of N = 1. All of us are. So we’re getting long in the tooth here. But I also wanted to ask you, the experience you had with what you called Spygate, I vaguely remember that, but it seems like I should know about it.

Jay Glazer 44:45
I don’t call it Spygate. It’s called Spygate.

Mark Divine 44:47
So why do you think, why were you the one who was given that tape?

Jay Glazer 44:55
Trust and loyalty. So for people like you who don’t know…

Mark Divine 44:58
Yeah, describe what it is because I didn’t know what it was.

Jay Glazer 45:01
It was the biggest cheating scandal of our generation, the NFL with the Patriots, it’s actually fucking brilliant what they were doing, but they got caught filming other teams’ signals. But they were doing it in the guise of like they had like a basically a fake TV show set up. And a cameraman who worked for the Patriots. They created like a fake television show. And they just zoomed in on these other coaches and signals. So what you could do is you could break that down, and the next time you play them, you could have somebody up there, which they did. They’d see the hand signal, they radio down the coaches and the coaches that would know okay, they just signal the Blitz. They just signaled this coverage.

Mark Divine 45:35
Yeah, as a Navy SEAL, I looked at that as just that’s a smart, it was smart, but it was illegal.

Jay Glazer 45:40
Yeah, and NFL rules. Well, the NFL slapped the Patriots with some hefty fines and lost draft picks. And they said they destroyed all the tapes. And they thought they did, except for the one I got my hands on. And the story there was because they made a big deal that they were all destroyed. And then that was actually my second week at Fox. Holy shit, man. I was a new kid over there. These are Hall of Famers that I’m with. They’ve always done an incredible way in this kind of, I was the first minute by minute breaking news NFL reporter in the country. Me and two other guys, John Clayton who just passed, may he rest in peace, and Lynn Pasquerale, and so there wasn’t like, now you have insiders for everything, but there wasn’t a huge, like, bevy of insiders everywhere. So now Fox hired me to do this, but they didn’t really want somebody else taking up airtime. Obviously these guys like Terry Bradshaw and Howie Long and Jimmy Johnson are my freakin brothers now. Holy shit, my brothers. So anyway, I get this tape. And we air it on Fox my second week. And they’re kind of like, holy fuck. So I put it out there on the air in my second week. And this story immediately became, not just Spygate itself, but no one has seen it. So how did Jay Glazer get it? So it shipped over to me, how did this kid get this tape? And Senator Arlen Specter, this is in the book, called me for my copy of Spygate.

Mark Divine 47:02
Why the hell did Congress get involved in this?

Jay Glazer 47:05
Because Congress likes to get involved in NFL stuff. And I did say, no listen, you know, by the way. Here’s the guy who did the Kennedy assassination. And now he was talking to me about Spygate.

Mark Divine 47:13
He didn’t do a very good job, by the way.

Jay Glazer 47:16
Not only that, it was the same week, like I was married for about 10 months. My wife left me like that week. Oh, man, so I have this new insider position on Fox, they really don’t want me, man. Now all of a sudden The NFL is opening this investigation, which, how I got my tape. But I did tell Specter. Because he said to me, if you give me your copy of Spygate, I’ll give you the biggest scoop you ever had. And I was like, what could that be? Nothing can be bigger. And I don’t need to be greedy. I just hit a fucking home run in the bottom of the ninth to beat the Yankees in the World Series. I’m good. So I didn’t give it, so he threatened jail time. And I was like, all I do is fight to live anyway. And my dad said to me like, What are you saying? And I’m like, I’m just trying to show Congress that I’m off. And then my boss at Fox said, you’re trying to show Congress you’re off? Uh, yeah. They said, What the fuck, stop. I said, see it’s working right now! So no, I never gave it to him. But it really it made me who I am today.

And inside that Fox greenroom also that morning, when they told the guys that I’m going to have more time in my second week. And instead of a one segment, I’m going to have four. And the guy’s like, what, why are we giving this to this kid? And the producer at the time said “Hey, he got the Spygate video,” and Howie Long gets up out of the seat. And he doesn’t look at me. He just kind of points over. He’s like, hold on, hold on. Hold on. You’re telling me that this kid has the Spygate videos. I’m sitting like this. Like, yes. He’s like this kid again. He’s just pointing at me. And I’m like, just sitting there like, oh, man, this sucks. Just get berated by Howie Long. Jimmie Johnson looks across the room to me says you really have it? I said, Yeah, I got the tape. Terry Bradshaw looks over me. And he goes, you got the tape? I said Yes, sir. And he goes, he’s okay with me. My best friend God almighty in Heaven. Oh, buddy. Man, that gave me my brotherhood with them moving forward. Fuck, he got me over a divorce real damn fast. And it was pretty wild, that investigation went on for a while and people were calling. I was convinced my phones were being tapped.

Mark Divine 49:32
So the investigation was just the NFL pissed, because they were trying to cover their ass. They didn’t want that out in the public either. Obviously.

Jay Glazer 49:39
No, they didn’t want that out at all. But I will say this. Roger Goodell to his credit. I called him the morning of I said, Hey, I got the tape. He said, How do you get the tape? We destroyed them all. I said apparently not. Well, obviously, I can’t say that. I got it. He literally said, Wow. Good for you. That’s big, which I wasn’t expecting. He said that’s big for you. I said I appreciate that. It was. So he wasn’t like, you better not have that. No, he never did that. He never told me not to. He never. He said, Of course, he said, I gotta ask what you get them. I said, obviously, I’m not gonna tell you. But I also said, I said, Roger, I’m gonna ask you, I know you’re gonna feel the need to do an investigation. But I’m asking you not to, because I’m gonna lay down so many fake breadcrumbs to where this mostly came from. A lot of people will get hurt if you try and go after people and think you know who it is. Because you’re never gonna find out. Don’t do it. And he’s like, I got to. So I said okay, but just know, whoever you think gave it to me, it’s not who gave it to me. And so kind of go easy on people, and then never punished anybody. It was great. I still have it.

Mark Divine 50:39
Yeah, I was just gonna ask you, who’s the Where’s the tape? You still got it somewhere.

Jay Glazer 50:43
I used to play it on a continuous loop at parties here at my house.

Mark Divine 50:49
That’s awesome. Well, that’s another story when you’re ready to divulge.

Jay Glazer 50:54
I’ll never divulge. But you asked earlier why. So the why for me was, again, when I said a long time ago, I walked in that giant locker room, how could I be different? A, I was gonna out work the world and I’ll bring it back full circle here with us. But the other thing was, I’m going to be different than everybody else. And being different for me was, man, all these reporters back then used their pen as a weapon. I’m gonna start relationships, because that’s what I know how to do. And that’s what I need, for my own mental health. Teammates for me coming all angles. So it could be the players that I covered. It could be the coaches that I covered, and it did, they became my brothers. A lot of them became our biggest donors to open up more MVP chapters to help out a lot of these football players. So you know, for me, somebody says, What did somebody else get out of giving it to you? Nothing, except the way you have relationships. They’re supposed to be give-give.

Mark Divine 51:44
My perspective is they knew that you would do it justice, and that the truth would be served.

Jay Glazer 51:51
But it was more of doing a solid. For me, as far as I could. I’m always doing for everybody else. That’s the thing, like, loyalty is a lost art. And I lay out in the book about how you know, relationships. Too many people just have kind of relationships where they want something in return. I don’t, I didn’t ask for this. But I do so much for everybody else. And I go, You know what, if I get 10 or 15% of people in my life who would do the same thing back? I got a pretty damn good little fight team with me.

Mark Divine 52:18
Right? And that’s like the golden rule, right? You just give without expectations. But eventually it’s gonna come back to you 10x or 20x.

Jay Glazer 52:24
And then you’re not disappointed if you give without expectations.

Mark Divine 52:28
I love it. That truly is probably one of the biggest lessons to be unbreakable. So a couple more of them are relentlessness. Giving without expectation, loyalty, faith that there’s something more going on than meets the eye. Like you said, whether we call it God or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Team. That’s a big one.

Jay Glazer 52:48
Team, being of service being of service. Last one for me is laughter.

Mark Divine 52:52
Laughter is awesome. Yeah. You got a great sense of humor. Have you always had that sense of humor?

Jay Glazer 52:57
Because that’s what I need. It’s interesting. I’ve been suffering panic attacks, anxiety attacks every week since 2005. Dude, I didn’t know what they were. That’s another thing I’m trying to do with this book is give it words. So people don’t think they’re alone. So for 10, 11 years before we started talking about mental health, I thought I was having a heart attack. And I was getting my heart checked out for a decade. So every single week, I’ve been on TV since. I’m not afraid to be on TV. Like I’m like you. Like everybody in the SEALs. I’m sure you’re great in fucking chaos. I’m great in chaos. I suck in calm. We create a lot of chaos, because we’re afraid of the calm. That’s right. When I’m on TV, I love it. So I don’t understand why I would have a panic attack or an anxiety attack. But it’s been every single week. I’ll know now to do breath work. I’ll immediately say to myself, you’re not in danger. You’re safe. Do some breath work. But the faster I could laugh, the faster it gets me out of that panic attack. So if you watch me on Fox, NFL Sunday or any TV show, and you see me like jamming a quick joke, it’s because I’m having a panic attack.

Mark Divine 54:02
No shit. Interesting.

Jay Glazer 54:04
So the laughter gets that one. Uh, like I said, the gray hates laughter.

Mark Divine 54:08
Yeah. Laughter is medicine for so much. That’s awesome, Jay.

Jay Glazer
Thank you, brother.

Mark Divine
Well, man, this has been a total honor, what a great and fun conversation and also very insightful. I appreciate you for your time. I definitely want to have a follow up with you about the vet thing. You know, if there’s a way we can help some of your vets with a year long, no charge for anybody, and then vice versa. All right, Jay, keep doing what you’re doing.

Jay Glazer 54:31
For anyone listening out there. Our website is vets and players.org MVP merging vets and players, vets and players.org. It’s a pretty fucking cool thing, when you come to meeting and there’s Navy Seals and marines and Air Force and Army and

Mark Divine 54:46
You do these meetings virtually or are they in person?

Jay Glazer 54:50
They’re in person, seven cities. They’re virtually three times a week throughout the country, but it’s literally military and Coutures and Strahans and football players and everybody just together and we’re all one fucking cool team together leans on each other and we are vulnerable as shit in those rooms. It’s really cool.

Mark Divine 55:10
It’s cool. That’s an players.org A lot of people find you personally, or in the book

Jay Glazer 55:16
At Jay Glazer. And obviously, the book is called Unbreakable: How I Turned My Depression, and Anxiety Into Motivation and You Can Too, wherever books are sold.

Mark Divine 55:26
Awesome. Jay will keep doing what you’re doing, and keep being you.

Jay Glazer
Thank you, man. It’s great.

Mark Divine
And I hope to meet in person sometime.

Jay Glazer
You too, brother. Definitely.

Mark Divine
All right. Hoo-yah. Take care now. Bye.

What an incredible guy Jay Glazer, MMA coach, actor, veteran advocate, founder of the unbreakable training centers and author of the new book Unbreakable. How trauma and success are intertwined. What has helped Jay with his depression and anxiety, such as psychedelics and ketamine treatment and the desert Toad, amongst other things. He still continues to this day to work on that, but he’s turned his trauma into success, and he helps veterans and others do the same.

Check me out at Mark Divine on Twitter at real Mark Divine and Instagram and Facebook. You can hit me up on LinkedIn.

Show Notes and transcripts for this episode, and all of our episodes are up on our site at Mark divine.com. And a quick plug for the new newsletter Divine Inspiration. We’re into week number four. This is an incredible opportunity for you to get other things that are top of my mind including inspirational people, habits, books, products, things that I’m looking at and reading that will help you really understand even more how to live a life with courage and compassion.
Go to Mark divine.com to subscribe if you’re not on that, and please let your friends know about it.

Special shout out to my team Jason Sanderson, Geoff Haskell, Jeff Torres, Melinda Hershey and Amy Jurkowitz. It’s incredible people who help me produce this show every week, and bring you incredible guests like Jay. Reviews really, really do help and ratings help. So if you haven’t read it or reviewed the show, please do so at Apple or wherever you do listen to this podcast. Like I said, it really helps other people find it helps us with credibility and authenticity helps us grow the show so that I can keep doing it.

As you know, the world is chaotic and seemingly dangerous. But that’s just because things are chaotic and dangerous inside our own minds. We have seven and a half billion people with chaotic minds. So we’ve got to take control, and we take control back by getting control of our own minds first. That’s what we do here at Divine Inspiration. And the Mark Divine show as well as my company Unbeatable. If you want to learn more about our training at Unbeatable go to unbeatablemind.com. And you’ll see what we do there. It’s crucial for you to take care of yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, cultivate compassion and courage and inclusivity and learn the skills of nonviolent communication, conflict resolution, so we can be the beacons of light in the world and we can be the change we want to see, starting with you and me. And then those we love and our teams and then eventually 100 million strong, so let’s do this. Hoo-yah. Til next week, stay focused, keep training and be you. Divine out.

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  1. Great comments continue to move forward with your life. Always work hard that’s my moto!

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