Mark Divine [00:05:53]:
You only pay for it if it works. Daniel’s living proof that real change comes from bold thinking and relentless commitment to results. Super stoked to have you, Daniel. Thanks for coming to join us in person all the way from Mexico.

Daniel Packard [00:06:05]:
Thank you. Well, and I know I’m in San Diego because you just said you’re stoked. Stoked. I haven’t been like, wow, fast times at Ridgemont.

Mark Divine [00:06:14]:
Super stoked, man.

Daniel Packard [00:06:15]:
Dude, let’s hang 10. Let’s, let’s. Let’s get some gnarly somethings.

Mark Divine [00:06:21]:
You know, I guess I am a California SoCal person now. I’ve been here longer than I was in upstate.

Daniel Packard [00:06:26]:
Let’s go. I’m still.

Mark Divine [00:06:27]:
I am still an upstate New York hick at heart though, right?

Daniel Packard [00:06:30]:
Well, for right now, I am stoked too. Although I said it, not I’m stoked too. Bra.

Mark Divine [00:06:35]:
I love your outfit, by the way.

Daniel Packard [00:06:37]:
Thank you.

Mark Divine [00:06:37]:
You got your very bright colors.

Daniel Packard [00:06:39]:
Thank you.

Mark Divine [00:06:39]:
You’ve always been that, what, what’s the word I’m looking for? Flashy or eccentric?

Unknown [00:06:46]:
Expressive.

Mark Divine [00:06:46]:
Expressive.

Daniel Packard [00:06:47]:
Thank you. I like expressive.

Mark Divine [00:06:48]:
That’s why I have her. She puts the words in my mouth.

Daniel Packard [00:06:50]:
Thank you. Expressive. It wasn’t always this way. I think as I’ll explain more about the work that we’re helping people with is it just heals at such a deep level. And for me, as I felt more and more calm and confident, my heart opened up and my natural wanting to be seen and confidence and also my vibration kind of came up. And so I didn’t mean to, but I think it’s just an expression of having just a healthy soul that wants to shine brightly.

Mark Divine [00:07:22]:
I love that. All right, let’s get into it. Why do you think that most personal development programs are ineffective or fail to deliver results? I guess it’s the same way. Same.

Daniel Packard [00:07:33]:
Well, I want to be clear that everybody in this. It’s a trillion dollar industry globally. Trillion. I call between therapy, psychology, and spirituality and not including religion, just therapy, spirituality, personal development. Trillion. With a t dollar industry globally, and what I call it is affectionately, is the improvement industrial complex.

Mark Divine [00:08:00]:
That’s a good one.

Daniel Packard [00:08:01]:
Thank you. And it’s this large industry that pulls in a trillion a year. And I would just say my experience and the experience of many of the people we help, probably the experience of your audience, is that it doesn’t get great results. It’s helpful. It’s valuable. Absolutely. But if what people want is the result of being free of what holds them back quickly and permanently, the reason a trillion a year is spent is because it’s not solving people’s problems quickly.

Mark Divine [00:08:30]:
Well, the common denominator is there’s an individual who’s got to do the work for those programs. So the programs themselves often have really good content and processes. But I think the problem is people, and this is at least my experience with my clients, people don’t do the work. They stick with it maybe for a week or two, and then when they don’t get instant results, because they’ve been trained to expect instant results, they get distracted, discouraged, and they move on to something else.

Daniel Packard [00:09:00]:
100% true. However, as I want to be sharing with your audience, when we went to build something that got much better results, we leaned on things that just work really well. And when I looked back on all the things that I had worked on and tried, I said, you know what? This stuff just isn’t engineered and designed to get permanent results. So, absolutely. People don’t always put in the work 100%. However, the industry, I believe, is not incentivized to build and disseminate things that get solutions. I also think for the most part, it’s just easier to take what you’ve learned, maybe your own experience or you learned it from another teacher, another school, and just regurgitate the same old information. Now, if the information that was being shared got great results, fine, but it doesn’t get great results.

Daniel Packard [00:09:47]:
And what this industry doesn’t do is they don’t innovate. It’s pretty much the same stuff over and over and over again.

Mark Divine [00:09:55]:
That’s until Unbeatable Mind came along.

Daniel Packard [00:09:58]:
So sorry, until. Absolutely. And I’m talking about a broad trend. I don’t know every single person and every single program, but I’m talking about a trend. And the reason I bring it up is because, you know, your audience is in some ways aligned with you. You know, you are a leader. You’re someone that puts in the work. Someone’s wants to be successful and be of impact in your audience.

Daniel Packard [00:10:19]:
That’s them also. They want to be of impact. They’re entrepreneurs. They want to be leaders. They want to be better parents, partners. However, again, a lot of people like myself have tried the retreats, the workshops, the books, the apps, the gurus, and they’ve tried it. And again, there’s improvement. It’s better.

Daniel Packard [00:10:36]:
They have awareness, but it’s not fully solved. They’re not getting the result that they want. I’m going to be explaining to you partly why the sort of dirty little secret that this industry doesn’t want you to know, and the reason I want people to know that is because when people try things that aren’t designed well, that don’t work well, they’re not doable, they’re not easy, they’re not simple, they don’t address the root cause. People fail partly because, as you said, themselves, but partly because I think this stuff isn’t designed that well to get a permanent result. And then what do people do? It’s my fault. I’m broken. There must be something wrong with me. And I wanna let your audience know you’ve tried some things that were created by well intentioned people that I believe had a somewhat incomplete model of the full problem and they weren’t incentivized to solve your problems.

Daniel Packard [00:11:21]:
And so that’s partly why. So it’s not their fault. It’s partly that this industry is not engineered well to get people results. And then I also want to explain to people the key discoveries my company made that make it much more doable and simple to get primary results.

Mark Divine [00:11:37]:
Yeah, we’ll get there. Let’s talk about anxiety and your journey with anxiety. Like how did this all come about?

Daniel Packard [00:11:44]:
Well, Mark, you’ve had a lot of guests and as you know, sometimes guests come on here and they share their pain and how they evolve their pain. Not me. I was born perfect out of an egg. I have had Roswell, New Mexico. I was fully enlightened, Mark, and I just came to me in a bubble gum wrapper.

Mark Divine [00:12:00]:
Funny. Actually, you’re reminding me. I did have someone who had developed a emotional development program. I forget what it was called. And I asked him about his traumas. Right. And he said, no, I don’t, I didn’t have. I had a perfect problem.

Mark Divine [00:12:14]:
I didn’t have any traumas. I was like, okay, I don’t believe you.

Daniel Packard [00:12:21]:
Probably wise. Probably wise. Anyways. So no, I didn’t just have issues. I had subscriptions. So I. And I don’t walk on water. So our company is about the journey is.

Daniel Packard [00:12:34]:
Our company is about results.

Mark Divine [00:12:36]:
Yeah. I want to know your journey. I want to know your story about anxiety. Why were you in crisis?

Daniel Packard [00:12:43]:
Well, I was in crisis because what brought it to the most surface was I was in an abusive relationship physically.

Mark Divine [00:12:54]:
It’ll do it.

Daniel Packard [00:12:56]:
Yeah. Disney lied. You don’t always live happily ever after after the kiss. Apparently it can get more complicated than that. And I didn’t have the self esteem or self worth to leave. So I stayed. And right after the relationship ended, just my entire system just became so fragile. The tiniest thing, someone interrupted me, someone running late and I would just go into absolute panic.

Mark Divine [00:13:17]:
Sound post traumatic stress disorder.

Daniel Packard [00:13:19]:
Yeah. And I also, what was worse was the anxiety. I had anxiety. Procrastination got worse. The people pleasing, the perfectionism, low self, self doubt, all of it. And you know, like your audience, I go looking for help and so spent a hundred grand, ten years trying to get better at this stuff. And I learned some things, awareness, it got better, but it just, it never went away. And I was getting.

Daniel Packard [00:13:51]:
Starting to feel broken and trapped and like I was in a box. And I knew there was this version of me that wanted to come out. But I’m trying everything, I’m doing everything and it’s just not going away. It would go away temporarily, but then come back sometimes worse. And I kind of had this moment where I just sort of broke down. I was on a beach in Mexico and I’m trying to meditate, I’m trying to quiet my mind and be a good spiritual student. And I’m just feeling horrible. And I just looked up to whoever’s up there pulling the strings and I just was pissed and I just said, what are you? What do you want from me? What do you want from me? I’ve been at this 10 years and I still feel like crap.

Daniel Packard [00:14:34]:
And I’m not happy. I know this is a test, but I don’t even know what the test is. What do you want from me? And I was just being rhetorically pissed. I didn’t expect an answer, but the answer I got was some wisdom that my dad shared with me at 10. When I was 10, my dad was a scientist and he said, look, anybody can have a theory or an idea. The person that matters, the person that you can trust is the person that gets results. And he said, results matters. And that always stuck with me.

Daniel Packard [00:15:04]:
And I loved creating things that get results. I went to engineering school to find a problem, build a prototype design until you get a result, it’s very satisfying to get a result, but also it’s the result that impacts the world. And I just had this sad realization that all this stuff I tried while well intentioned and had truth to it, this entire industry doesn’t get great results. And I’m not the only one. And so partly out of desperation and partly just seeing, what if we used engineering? What if we approach this with how I was trained, which is to have an end result and reverse engineer and then design something, but then test and retest and refine and calibrate until you get something that gets a permanent result. So I started a research company, Full Liberation Technology. And I was really naive about how hard it would be. It sounded great.

Daniel Packard [00:16:00]:
Oh, just come up with a system. And it took eight years. It took a million dollars in R and D. I worked with 3,000 people all over the world. I worked with monks in India, I worked with addicts in South Africa. I worked with athletes in the US and after a lot of refinement and blood, sweat and tears and passion, we now have an online program that addresses the root cause and gets people permanently free of anxiety, procrastination, people pleasing perfectionism, and low confidence. And what we’re proud about is the results. A 90% success rate, which we’re very, very, very proud about.

Daniel Packard [00:16:36]:
Partly because we’re helping people at a high level, but also for the most part, you can’t fail. We don’t want people trying what we do and failing and feeling worse about themselves. I know that pain. And we didn’t want to design something where people could fail. It’s not right to them. And so that’s what we offer now is for people that just have tried a lot of things, they like what they’ve tried, but they want that result of being free of what holds them back. So they can be better parents, better moms, better leaders, better business owners, make more money and just be more, be more fulfilled.

Mark Divine [00:17:13]:
That’s quite a story. You mentioned a number of things like perfectionism, procrastination, whatnot, which are all like expressions of codependence. And when we met yesterday, you were talking about a lot of how a lot of these self development programs really focus on those, but you see them as symptoms and not as like root cause. You know, perfectionism isn’t a root cause behavior. It’s a symptom of something else. I think that’s an interesting take. And I, you know, when I started thinking about it as we were meeting, I said, yeah, it really does make sense. Because if you have, if you have something in you that’s preventing you from taking action because you don’t want to be criticized or you don’t want to be seen as a failure, then that is perfectionism.

Mark Divine [00:18:01]:
But it’s also procrastination. Right. And there’s probably three or four other things that it could be expressive. It just depends on what lens you’re looking through. So all of those things that show up in codependence and narcissistic behavior or any of the isms that the therapeutic profession is really kind of attacking, really can trace their cause to a single root.

Daniel Packard [00:18:25]:
Yeah.

Mark Divine [00:18:26]:
Can you trace that for us?

Daniel Packard [00:18:27]:
Yeah, because I know that’s fascinating. The reason I’ll share with your audience what kind of what you just shared, which was. So when we went to try to solve this again, we’re approaching this like engineers. So we didn’t take any pre existing knowledge or labels. We just said, let’s start from scratch.

Mark Divine [00:18:42]:
So you didn’t have like a favorite system and you said, hey, let’s improve this or work with that, or take a piece of this and take a piece of that.

Daniel Packard [00:18:47]:
It was the opposite. I was aware that I’d spent 10 years ingesting and learning all these things, but I was aware of that I could have ingested incomplete, inaccurate truth. So I wanted to start from scratch. Completely sort of void of anything. Start with the end result and work my way backwards and either invent or incorporate things that had existed before so that it worked. So we were very clear with my team, do not take what this book says, not because there aren’t truths, but because those truths may not lead us and may confuse us and take us away from a solution. So the first thing we did before we even went in was just to know what we don’t know and also just look at the entire part of the problem from a systems perspective. And what we saw was there’s all these great things out there.

Daniel Packard [00:19:37]:
There’s therapy, there’s psychology, there’s spirituality, there’s coaching. There’s so many wonderful things. However, my experience and a lot of people’s experiences is that it’s very confusing. It’s not clear, well what thing is. What is it my past? Is it my present? Is it my hormones? Do I walk on water? Do I walk on hot coals? Do I awaken this or do I quiet this? And what do I do for how long? Do I do an ice bucket challenge or do I do a hot sauna? I mean, it’s not saying, it’s just confusing. And it also doesn’t tell you what order for how long. There’s no manual. There’s a manual for IKEA furniture.

Daniel Packard [00:20:14]:
There is a manual for chocolate chip cookies. There’s no manual of do this, then do this. It’s confusing. And we said if people are confused, especially the experts, then maybe they don’t understand the problem as well as we think. As I was sharing with you, Einstein came up with E equals MC squared. He took something profoundly Complicated, made it simple. Why? Because he really understood it. Newton took all of motion on the planet, gets it down to three laws.

Daniel Packard [00:20:38]:
You have to really understand things to distill. So we said, let’s try to see if we can simplify it. And then that would let us know we’re on the right track. So the big first perceptual breakthrough was we saw. Was that what you were saying? We are taught and it feels like we have multiple problems. I am a procrastinator. I have perfectionism. Like you ingested it on the playground, like a cootie or something.

Daniel Packard [00:21:06]:
I’ve got anxiety. It feels like a problem and it feels like individual problems. What we saw was, is that for the most part we are not struggling with individual problems. We are struggling with multiple symptoms of one singular thing.

Mark Divine [00:21:27]:
Right.

Daniel Packard [00:21:28]:
And when we spoke yesterday and I shared with you what that thing was, what was the underlying root cause that was causing these symptoms?

Mark Divine [00:21:40]:
Inadequate care.

Daniel Packard [00:21:43]:
Well, that came later.

Unknown [00:21:44]:
He said fear.

Daniel Packard [00:21:45]:
Fear. Yeah, Fear.

Mark Divine [00:21:47]:
Yeah. But fear was because you didn’t trust.

Daniel Packard [00:21:52]:
Yeah.

Mark Divine [00:21:53]:
And the lack of trust is because you weren’t cared for.

Daniel Packard [00:21:56]:
Yeah.

Mark Divine [00:21:56]:
So the underlying root cause is lack of care.

Daniel Packard [00:21:58]:
Yeah.

Mark Divine [00:21:59]:
Which does kind of jive with like Hoffman process negative love syndrome, shadow work saying, you know, essentially all trauma stems from the absence of love.

Daniel Packard [00:22:12]:
I mean that’s all true at a.

Mark Divine [00:22:14]:
Childhood, a young childhood age.

Daniel Packard [00:22:15]:
100% true. Depending on what layer you’re going down and what color root cause. But the first, I’m taking you on the journey of what we saw first.

Mark Divine [00:22:23]:
Yeah, we’re backing into it.

Daniel Packard [00:22:25]:
Yeah.

Mark Divine [00:22:26]:
So from the symptom, what’s causing the symptom is fear is fear. What’s causing the fear is something else is fear.

Daniel Packard [00:22:31]:
And so what that means is. Okay, well you could say you have anxiety or you could say, well, I just have a lot of fear. And you call that high level of fear anxiety. One could call it procrastination, but what we saw is really you have a fear of starting and finishing things. You could call it perfectionism, but it’s really a fear of making a mistake. You could call it people pleasing, or you could call it a fear that people won’t like you, so put everybody else first and yourself last. You could call it low confidence or self doubt, but really it’s a fear to be your natural, true self expressed self. So we thought, wait a minute, all this stuff that people are focusing on is just the symptom level.

Daniel Packard [00:23:08]:
And so if you’re just focusing on the symptom, the best you can ever hope for is symptom management and gaining more and more awareness, which is not bad, but you’ll never be free of it. So does that track or make sense to you that at least these things are symptoms of fear?

Mark Divine [00:23:24]:
Yeah.

Daniel Packard [00:23:25]:
Now, the reason this matters is because your audience has been told you have these different problems. Read this different book, go to this different retreat, hire this different coach. And so they’re doing that, but they’re at the symptom level, and that’s why they’re not getting better results. And so we didn’t come up with the idea that people are afraid. But this reframe of let’s go at the root cause, just from a pure efficiency perspective, can you see that if we go from the symptom level to the root cause, we’re going to get better results? Yeah. So do you have any questions on that?

Mark Divine [00:23:59]:
No.

Daniel Packard [00:24:00]:
Okay, so that’s the first thing I want people to know. Catherine, any thoughts?

Mark Divine [00:24:08]:
Time’s up.

Unknown [00:24:08]:
No.

Mark Divine [00:24:10]:
Now, when I say, you know, when I think of fear as a Navy seal, I think, oh, yeah. I’m standing on the edge of the. The ramp, staring into 30,000ft of darkness, and I’m about to jump out with a parachute on my back and pray to God that it opens. And so I’ve got this real intense feeling in my solar plexus, like, oh, shit, I’m about to commit suicide until I pull that rip cord. So that’s obviously fear of loss of life, fear of oblivion, which I think is probably the most primordial of the fears. Right. Everything else kind of stems from there. Right.

Mark Divine [00:24:50]:
Fear of not being liked is not anywhere near as bad as fear of losing your life. And the idea of oblivion or not being alive.

Unknown [00:24:59]:
Well, and you can also root it back to that, because if people don’t like you because we’re pack animals, we could die. So there’s still a fear of that.

Mark Divine [00:25:07]:
So there’s still an existential egoic need to. That makes survival, you know, the need to be in relationship and loved or as a survival mechanism. Yeah, I agree with that. Interesting.

Daniel Packard [00:25:19]:
Well, it’s a good point, because when we tell people that the way we’re getting these better results is we’re going at the fear, I now really don’t feel fear anymore. And by that I mean it’s not that I don’t feel. I feel a lot. I feel more because as your fear goes down, your heart opens up and you’re more sensitive. And it’s not that there’s no fear. It’s that I really don’t feel limiting fear anymore because people say, well, how do you communicate with me?

Mark Divine [00:25:46]:
Couldn’t you just say that’s because you recontextualize the story around the fear or that energy that you feel. You know, for instance, in the seals, right after relentless training and practice, that feeling would still come up. But the story we have around it is different now. The story that we’re telling ourselves is different. The story is now that we’re competent, that our training protocols will work, that I’ve got a reserve parachute. And so now that what I used to. When the feeling would come up and I used to have this kind of a terror of loss of life, I now experience as excitement.

Daniel Packard [00:26:24]:
So what you described, there’s a lot there. The short answer is no, I wasn’t able to lower the fear because I recontextualize it. I’ll explain to you how. How I got to this state of sort of fearlessness that didn’t involve the mind. And also, it’s important to point out that there are sort of healthy, appropriate fears. You’re in combat, you’re jumping. You could die. To feel a little bit of that doesn’t feel fantastic.

Daniel Packard [00:26:48]:
That’s not. Oh, that’s false evidence appearing real. That is real unhealthy.

Mark Divine [00:26:52]:
People think that seals don’t feel fear. I say, no, that’s not true. Just don’t let it debilitate us.

Daniel Packard [00:26:57]:
Yes, the average person is not a seal. As you know, you’re elite. It literally has the word. Average person is feeling terror just sitting on that couch, Netflix and chill. Or they’re procrastinating and they have this fear that’s holding them back underneath. The fear of finishing or fear of starting. That’s the fear, the limiting fear that the system that we developed basically heals out of you. And the way we were able to do it is you mentioned, you know, recontextualizing in the mind.

Daniel Packard [00:27:26]:
Now, the mind and fear obviously, are part of it. And when we went, we just said, as engineers, well, how do we solve the fear? If we can solve the fear, then the symptoms of the fear go away, and people can be free and calm and confident and fulfill themselves. So we looked at sort of just to see what was the lay of the land. What I was taught, what most people are taught, is that usually fear is a problem of the mind. You know, that’s usually cognitive behavioral therapy is cognition. Stop your scarcity, mindset, your negative thinking, catastrophizing the pills target the neurotransmitters in the brain. It’s called mental health. Got the word mental right in there.

Daniel Packard [00:28:04]:
So the predominant knowledge approach is the mind. And it looks like it’s the mind because the mind can say some horrible, scary things. My mind, before I was able to quiet it was like the judges from the Muppets on ketamine. I mean, just up there, oh, you suck. Your father was right. That’s actually not a dramatization. That’s what it sounds like. And so it looks like it’s the mind.

Daniel Packard [00:28:31]:
But as engineers, we looked at this and said, well, wait a minute, if the mind is the root cause, then why aren’t we getting better results? You know, Western therapy was based on a lot of, you know, Freud is the iconic father of western psychology. The guy was a chain smoking cocaine addict. Like that’s not a great from a results perspective. So we said, well, wait a minute, if the mind was the root cause, we should be getting better results. And because we weren’t attached to any particular discipline, we were free to just challenge this. Our ego didn’t care. We didn’t have to say, no, this is what I was taught. We have to stick with this.

Daniel Packard [00:29:08]:
That was the beauty of being engineers and not therapists or psychologists or coaches. And we said, well, maybe it’s not the mind. And what we saw was that based on the data that we saw and the research that we saw, we fear is not originating in the mind. The mind is a symptom of where fear originates, which is the body.

Mark Divine [00:29:32]:
I agree that the, the nervous system and the energy that you’re experiencing with fear and anxiety is a bodily sensation. But I would also suggest that oftentimes it is the mind that activates that sensation. Well, so, so you can’t say the mind’s not involved in the process of the experience of fear. It’s, it’s interpreting the fear. It can trigger the fear through a, through a repetitive habitual thought pattern which then brings, that triggers that sympathetic nervous system response which brings up that energy. You know, I said, mine is in my solar plexus. Some people might experience it in different, in different regions. Well, then we had this conversation yesterday about how the mind, the body and the mind are not two separate things.

Daniel Packard [00:30:21]:
They’re not two separate things and they’re just absolutely connects. It’s a bit of, well, it matters. But I guess here’s what I’ll say. The mind is part of it, because if the mind says scary, negative things, you can then feel it in your body. But as you know from science there’s this thing called causation versus correlation. And things can be correlated, but one is not the cause. So what I’ll say is, is that when we started, we’ve our hypothesis.

Mark Divine [00:30:45]:
So that thought is not causing the fear. It may be activating it, but it’s.

Daniel Packard [00:30:49]:
Not the cause, it’s not activating it. And if you want to quiet the whole system, if you just focus on the body and calm the body, what we saw is that the mind basically quieted down permanently. And this is because this is the way on some level we are wired. We are wired mechanically. We where your body feels and sends sensations to the mind of what the body needs to stay alive. And then the mind’s a little computer to try and figure things out. You feel hunger in your body first. Then your mind goes and looks for food.

Daniel Packard [00:31:21]:
If you’re in the jungle and you hear something in the bushes, you will feel fear in your body first. Then your mind tries to get you to safety again.

Mark Divine [00:31:30]:
It works the other way. You’re walking down the street and you see an ice cream shop and you suddenly think, wow, that ice cream on a hot day would be awfully good. And then you start to feel the hunger.

Daniel Packard [00:31:41]:
Well, what you’re describing is, it’s true, you can see the ice cream shop and then feel hunger from that. What I’m explaining to you is what we saw that allowed us to get these better results, which was to focus on the body, perhaps as the origin. So when we went in there, we thought, well, what we discovered is there’s a reason that the body in almost everybody is feeling afraid unnecessarily. I’ll explain to you why. And there’s fear in the body. Then what happens is the mind senses that fear and wants to explain it. Now there is no threat, but if you feel afraid, the mind senses that fear and then has to then come up with a reason why you feel afraid. So then you may come up with, I’m not good enough.

Daniel Packard [00:32:26]:
This business will fail. My father was right. They won’t like me. What if they. So we thought, what if we calm the body first and then see what happens to the mind? And I can speak from my experience that when I was using early prototypes of the tools, we were just focusing on calming the body. And I remember the day that I really felt it take hold. I was in. I was living in Belize in this little house, and I wake up.

Daniel Packard [00:32:55]:
And after really a lifetime of feeling anxiety and worry and doubt, I woke up and I felt oddly calm. And it was Disorienting. And I thought. And then I really like a little researcher because our theory was if you quiet the body, the mind should go quiet. And it kind of like went up to my mind. I was quiet and I even tried to think some negatives. I tried to get it going and it just. The whole system was quiet.

Daniel Packard [00:33:24]:
And I thought, well, this has got to be temporary. There’s no way this is permanent, because I’ve quieted my body and mind through meditation before. And I thought, there’s no way this sticks. So one day goes by, body’s quiet, mind is quiet. One week goes by, one month goes by. Now it’s been 10 years. And I just wake up every morning basically calm and content, and the mind has basically shut off. From the judges, from the Muppets on ketamine to.

Daniel Packard [00:33:56]:
It’s really. It’s quiet in there. It’s like Bambi. And when my mind does talk, I swear to God it says nice things. I looked into the mirror this morning and I swear to God I said I’d do me. It was a nice. It was a positive. So I used to have thoughts that said I was unlovably ugly.

Daniel Packard [00:34:11]:
And now I’m looking in the mirror and I do me, and I have never worked. And what you want to say, Mark, is. You took the words right out of my mouth. No, I don’t.

Mark Divine [00:34:22]:
I’ve never even had that thought.

Daniel Packard [00:34:23]:
All right. Honestly, I was able to permanently quiet the mind and I never worked on the mind at all. So I don’t want to. I can’t tell you. Well, the mind is this in the mind and that. What I can tell you to get the better results is we just focused on the body, and when the body quieted, the mind basically went with it.

Mark Divine [00:34:41]:
I think that’s really interesting. It’s. I can see from like a. Again, from through a spiritual lens how that really makes sense, because from us, you know, like an Eastern tradition, the body is an instrument for consciousness. And so if the body is full of anxiety and fear and, you know, agitation, because the nervous system is all gooned up, then it’s going to experience consciousness, which is the felt experience, consciousness, thinking and being aware of your thinking, it’s going to be full of agitation and fear based thinking. But if the body is really calm and the instrument is going to have a different vibrational frequency, it’s going to be much more higher evolved, let’s say, using David Hawkins scale of consciousness. And so the experience of consciousness, which includes thinking and the awareness of that thinking will be much calmer and a much higher vibration that so that yeah, I can see that and I totally agree with that. And I think that I have been with unbilled mind starting with the body 5 mountains physical which includes nervous system reset through deep diaphragmatic breathing practices and through exercise and through somatic movement and healthy eating and healthy sleeping, you know, all the big ones.

Mark Divine [00:36:13]:
And then we also work so we’re working on the body first, but then we go and we also work on the mind to see if we can speed up the process. That has been my theory and it does seem to work. But maybe the second part isn’t necessary is what you’re suggesting if you can.

Daniel Packard [00:36:29]:
Get through it from an efficiency point of view. And again, I’m not here to dismiss what other people do and tell people oh breakthroughs that we that allowed us to get better results. And I don’t want to sit here and tell people oh, your mind has nothing to do with it. That’s not fair to them. What I will say is that when we created this perceptual shift of let’s just focus on the body first and permanently quiet the body, the mind went with it. So from a results perspective, it was just more efficient based on our data. Now if you’ve been taught the mind is the root cause, you might maybe hear what I’m saying. You’re not gonna fully believe me.

Daniel Packard [00:37:05]:
So I always invite people. At the end I’m gonna send people to my website, danielpacker.com to get a free 90 minute training which was basically it’s a video version of what I shared with you yesterday. And this is gonna take the concepts that I’m sharing with you now and you get to do a deep dive where you get to feel for yourself what I’m saying, whether it feels true for you or not. And then at the end, we’re gonna teach you one of our foundational core techniques that addresses the body and you’ll. And what we have people measure at the end when they apply the technique is their body quiets down and then we have them try to think of negative thoughts and it becomes very, very challenging for them. So again, don’t take my word for it. I don’t know everything. This is what got us better results.

Daniel Packard [00:37:46]:
But I invite other people to download this free training, try the technique for themselves so you can see if what I’m saying is true for so like.

Unknown [00:37:54]:
If you did this and then like had five shots of espresso, what would.

Daniel Packard [00:37:58]:
Be the effect I have Never had that question before. Hit me again. I like it. I like. Keep me on my toes, Catherine, keep me on my toes. Ask me again.

Mark Divine [00:38:06]:
It might be counterproductive, but.

Unknown [00:38:08]:
Well, I’m just thinking about it. Like if we’re looking at nervous system stimulation, and then. So if I’m doing one of the techniques and then I get stimulated, whether it’s through caffeine or something else external.

Daniel Packard [00:38:22]:
What’s the question?

Unknown [00:38:22]:
That’s the question is, would I still have a calm mind, but I still have positive thinking? If this is something that’s to me like a permanent state, if it’s linked to my nervous system, that means my nervous system would always need to be in, you know. Yeah, homeostasis. But my nervous system’s always changing and affected by what I eat, what time of day it is, how much I sleep.

Daniel Packard [00:38:50]:
It’s a good question and I can give an answer. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense. And that’s why I always tell people, go, try this technique. So you can see the value of this for yourself and feel it for yourself. What I can tell you is I really do. I have a calm body and I love coffee.

Unknown [00:39:09]:
Yeah.

Daniel Packard [00:39:09]:
So I drink my yummy, yummy coffee and I’m awake. But there’s not this uncomfortable, scary, self doubt, worry, fear in my system. Thank God Starbucks doesn’t put that in their coffee. It wouldn’t sell so well. They’re like the new anxiety Attino. I don’t think it would be the self doubt Chino, I don’t think would be a hot seller. So I get energized and in fact, as I’ve lowered my fear, my heart opens up. I have a lot of energy, I’m stimulated, I’m fulfilled.

Daniel Packard [00:39:36]:
But it’s the unconscious, the worry, the doubt that fear is, is quiet in my system.

Unknown [00:39:42]:
So I guess maybe I’m misunderstanding. Are you linking it solely to the nervous system then? Are you linking it to something else?

Daniel Packard [00:39:49]:
Am I linking what?

Unknown [00:39:50]:
The results of the practices. Is it because you’re addressing the nervous system itself that you’re getting this result of a quiet mind, essentially, and a new self talk?

Daniel Packard [00:40:05]:
You know, a lot of those things do happen. Yes. Okay, so once we went to the body or we saw, this seems to be a more efficient way to go. Also, the reason the body is a smart place to go, aside from it being, in our opinion, closer to the root cause, location, or at the very least a place you should go as often as the mind, the beauty of going to the body is that it’s more easily solvable because the body is systems and it’s mechanical. The skeleton is mechanical, your eyes are mechanical, your heart, it’s mechanics and systems and engineers love that because we know that systems can malfunction and systems can be repaired. So we just kind of went in there again as engineers saying if we can find a system in here that might be creating all this unconscious fear and limiting fear, well, maybe we can figure out the system and repair the system. So again, I’m trying to create, simplify what’s going on, because simple leads to better results. It’s not to say that it’s the complete final answer, but if we can simplify this, we can make it more efficient.

Daniel Packard [00:41:09]:
So I asked you this question and I’ll ask your audience, we saw the system that was probably creating some of this fear. And I’ll ask your audience, because everything we figured out was dead simple. So if you had to guess, I’m asking your audience, what system? So take out the word fear, take out the word doubt, take out the word anxiety and just swap in the word nervous and just say the whole world is experiencing different symptoms of nervousness. You know, panic attacks is just very, very, very nervous. That was a scientific amount of varies procrastination. You’ve got mid level nervousness to start and finish things. So let’s just say the whole world is experiencing different levels of nervousness. If I said to you, Mark, and the audience, if you had to guess what system in the body is making everybody nervous because it’s malfunctioning, do you think it’s the capillary system, the endocrine system, or wait for it, the nervous system? The nervous system.

Daniel Packard [00:42:04]:
What do you think, Mark? What do you think? A, B or C?

Mark Divine [00:42:05]:
I think it’s C. Yeah.

Daniel Packard [00:42:07]:
Why do you think it’s C, Mark, why do you think the nervous system is making people nervous?

Mark Divine [00:42:11]:
Because that’s his function.

Daniel Packard [00:42:12]:
Yeah, it’s got the word nervous right in there, man. You know, we as we were like, wait a minute. What? For 100 years modern psychology has been telling people it’s the mind. The mind, the mind, the mind, the mind, only the mind. And it’s not getting phenomenal results. Anxiety’s on the rise, depression’s on the rise. Our teens are getting more and more anxious. And after 100 years of not great results in modern psychology, there’s a system in the body called the nervous system.

Daniel Packard [00:42:42]:
And they didn’t go there first. So once we saw that, we went, it’s a system. So we asked ourselves and what we saw was, which you already know from the work that you do, is that the nervous system basically is your body sort of safety, survival system on some level. That’s very oversimplified. But essentially, if the nervous system is healthy, you will feel a feeling which we all want to deeply feel. And that feeling is safe. If, however, for reasons which I’ll explain, the nervous system is malfunctioning or unhealthy or miscalibrated, it’s unhealthy, you will feel unsafe. When you feel unsafe, you will then feel nervous, anxious, worried, scared, and then that will give rise to anxiety.

Daniel Packard [00:43:30]:
And the symptoms of fear, procrastination, people pleasing, perfectionism, low confidence. So what we saw in the research again, as we tried to get better results, is that what people are experiencing are not different problems, but different symptoms of an unhealthy nervous system. And the reason that’s valuable is cause now you’re in the body, now we’re looking at a system and we figured out why the system is malfunctioning. And then we’re showing people how to bring it back to health. When people bring it back to health, they feel safe from the inside out. Now this is all theoretical, but this is what it looks like. I had a client recently, a month ago, from Vancouver. Her name is Marilyn, Architect, comes to me.

Daniel Packard [00:44:11]:
Lifetime anxiety, occasional panic attacks, chronic people pleaser, perfectionism. She had all of them. We call it the funky 5. Anxiety Perfectionism, people pleasing, procrastination, low confidence. She had tried everything. She did meditate, which helped. She did yoga, which helped. But she said, I’m just not happy.

Daniel Packard [00:44:30]:
I know there’s a version of me in here that can’t come out. I’m spending all this time and it’s just not going away. She said, I met somebody at a conference who worked with you. Said that I only pay at the end when I get results. So I was curious about that. And I told her, I said, this is how we’re doing it. And she said, well, it’s no risk to try, I’ll try it. And she sent me a message two weeks in to our full program.

Daniel Packard [00:44:52]:
And she just said, I just woke up this morning and I felt a feeling I haven’t felt since childhood, which is I just felt safe. And she said it’s not because I meditated and it’s just lasting. And I said, and how’s the procrastination? She said, I worked all day, I was productive. She said, my OCD kind of went down because I’m seeing My ocd, you know, when you’re nervous under. When you feel unsafe underneath, you know, you’re obsessing about things, trying to gain control. And she just said, also, my husband said, I felt happier and my kids were calmer because her kids were picking up on her anxiety. So when we went at it in this approach, we were just the key. Again, I’m not saying that we have all the answers or ours are the best.

Daniel Packard [00:45:42]:
What I’m saying is that people who are using this approach are getting much better results. Not in one area, multiple areas, because we’re addressing the root cause and we’re doing it in a way that is simple.

Mark Divine [00:45:54]:
Right. So clearly you prescribe some sort of simple practices. Right. And I think that’s the key. As we talked about earlier when we started, like, why doesn’t. Why do most programs not work is because they’re either too complicated or there’s not a clear path or progression, or.

Unknown [00:46:21]:
People don’t do it.

Mark Divine [00:46:22]:
And so it leads to people not doing it for very long.

Unknown [00:46:25]:
I mean, some people just get a program and then say they’re doing the programming.

Mark Divine [00:46:31]:
They like to just say they’re doing it. They might show up to meetings and stuff, but they’re not doing the practices. So we always have people start with a daily practice of box breathing. 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the afternoon or evening, and within three months, their entire life has been transformed. And it’s for the same reasons that you’re talking about when we did our work yesterday. And I won’t go into detail about it, but there was some. It wasn’t like a body exercise, so it was a mental exercise, which I thought was really interesting because you’ve been saying this whole time that it’s not about the mind, but you use the mind to get to the body. You got to go through the mind visualization thinking about certain experiences that made you uncomfortable, maybe in the past.

Mark Divine [00:47:17]:
So very much visualization, meditation, contemplation is part of your program, not just some sort of physical activity like breath work. Am I right?

Daniel Packard [00:47:28]:
Yes and no. So it’s not meditation and so much visualization, but absolutely, it’s a very. Actually, no one’s ever brought up that point. It’s a very good point. And you know your stuff. That was a very good point. So it’s not just the body. There is a lot of knowledge and information for you to understand how you’re going to quiet the body.

Daniel Packard [00:47:47]:
And we did that again because if you just tell a person who has a mind and Likes information and knowledge. We tried to just get people to go to the body and we didn’t get great results. Why? Because people are mind people and we’re logical and we’re practical and mechanical. Yeah. So we had to adjust the model. You know, this is what we saw was necessary. So then we sort of said, okay, we want to get people to hear where they’re in a body state, focus. But we have to take them where they’re at and bring them to this to get better results and to get this so that people wouldn’t fail.

Daniel Packard [00:48:24]:
A couple people who had done a lot of deep work and had done a lot of body work, they didn’t need that. But we wanted to create a program for kids and to get it into schools and for it to spread.

Mark Divine [00:48:33]:
So.

Daniel Packard [00:48:33]:
So, yes, we use the mind in the beginning to gain knowledge and information and focus awareness, but then draw it into the body and again, this’ll make more sense when people do the 90 minute training, which is, I want people to experience it for themselves. But absolutely, it’s not just that you like, I don’t know, sit in mushrooms in your body and just cook the body. That sounds horribly painful, by the way. No, it’s using the mind and there’s a lot of information that people gain in the program, but it is to again, draw the awareness and get the body what it needs.

Mark Divine [00:49:06]:
And is there any, let’s say someone’s driving and they’re like, oh, man, this sounds really interesting. I’m really curious about the practices. Can you share any of the micro practices, the ones that you prescribe to get the body calm?

Daniel Packard [00:49:26]:
I could, but I won’t.

Mark Divine [00:49:27]:
Okay.

Daniel Packard [00:49:28]:
Because again, our goal is to get.

Mark Divine [00:49:30]:
We want to deliver maximum value to our guests.

Daniel Packard [00:49:33]:
I know, and part of me, the part of me that wants to share is like I used to do that I used to share. Okay, here’s one of the techniques. And the not so secret sauce is that it’s an entire system that gets the results. It’s a set of optimized tools that work together through repetition and a certain sequence that gets the permanent result. So that when we would tell people, oh, here’s one of the techniques, they couldn’t appreciate the entire systems approach. And they would hear it and go, oh, no, that won’t work. There’s no way that’ll work. It’s like, no, that one tool wouldn’t work.

Daniel Packard [00:50:07]:
So also, I want people to experience it for themselves and take one of the tools that we have and really feel it. What I will Tell them is what the approach is based in. I want. I do want to give them value. I don’t want to just sit here. And we wanted to know, why was the nervous system malfunctioning? That was solvable. This was key. You can ask a lot of people, well, why is the nervous system malfunctioning? Oh, I have trauma from the past or I’m overstimulated at work.

Daniel Packard [00:50:36]:
We’re not the only ones that saw that the nervous system was part of this. But we wanted a solvable solution. So we just went back to first principles. And first principles in science and physics is like, try to find the most easy, obvious explanation for something. And so we said, well, it’s a system in the body and it’s malfunctioning. What is the number one reason often that systems in the body malfunction? And often the number one most common reason that systems in the body malfunction is that we don’t take care of them. So we are taught to take care of our bodies. We’re taught about calories and exercise.

Daniel Packard [00:51:11]:
We’re taught to get enough sleep. We’re taught to drink enough water. We’re taught about the food pyramid. Food pyramid. There’s a lot of systems that we are taught basic daily hygiene of. And if you know the basic daily hygiene of a system, you can do the basic daily hygiene and you can stay out of trouble. We know basic daily hygiene for teeth, brush, and floss. If you do that, should.

Daniel Packard [00:51:31]:
You should stay out of trouble if you’re taught basic daily hygiene. So let me ask you, Mark and your audience, did anybody ever sit you down, ever, and say, hey, here’s what you do every day to take care of your feelings on the inside. Did anybody ever give you that conversation to how to take care of your feelings daily?

Mark Divine [00:51:58]:
For me, yes. But not until later in life after a lot of research and participation in programs.

Daniel Packard [00:52:06]:
Fair enough. Did anybody when you were younger.

Mark Divine [00:52:09]:
Not when I was young, no.

Daniel Packard [00:52:10]:
No. And would it be fair to say, just through what we were told and what we saw, if anything, the people around us were telling us, don’t worry about it, get over it, or we went to them with our feelings and they scared the living crab out of us. You’re not feeling that. All this language that basically says and reinforces to not take daily care of your feelings. So we are conditioned and taught not only not to get good care, but poor care. So if you have a nervous system and it needs basic daily hygiene to run healthily, but we were taught and conditioned to Basically neglect it eventually. What’s gonna happen to that system if you neglect it over time?

Mark Divine [00:52:52]:
That’s gonna break.

Daniel Packard [00:52:53]:
It’s gonna break. And if you got a system that’s got the word nervous right in there and it breaks, you are going to feel unsafe and nervous. This was the big light bulb moment when we went, oh my gosh. The smoking gun of what’s creating a lot of this fear is the basic daily hygiene of our nervous system, which we were never taught. So we were never taught this. So I’m telling your audience, you are not broken. There is nothing wrong with you. There was an important type of care that you were not taught.

Daniel Packard [00:53:24]:
And so that system in you eventually was gonna break down. And it’s breaking down through anxiety, through fear and worry, which then gives rise to the procrastination, the people pleasing, the perfectionism, the low confidence, the ocd, the adhd, a lot of it. We had a client go through for Parkinson’s and about four weeks into our six week program, he said that he got off his Parkinson’s match.

Mark Divine [00:53:48]:
Is that right?

Daniel Packard [00:53:49]:
Yeah.

Mark Divine [00:53:49]:
Interesting.

Daniel Packard [00:53:50]:
We don’t track for Parkinson’s, we don’t measure Parkinson’s. But when you stop and think about it, and I’m not claiming to be an expert on Parkinson’s, however, you’re shaking, you’re shaking in Parkinson’s. So it stands to reason that if you are nervous, you will shake, or at least it will make it worse. We are seeing so many things that are linked to this. We’re still discovering the power of just basically calming the body in the right place. And so the engineer in me gets very excited because people come to us usually for one thing. You know, I had a client three months ago come to a lawyer, just complete perfectionist. And anxiety perfectionism just crippling his life, keeping him from being more productive, just was not a good partner.

Daniel Packard [00:54:35]:
And I talked to him and he goes through the problem for perfectionism. And about four weeks in he says, I just had a day of freedom. I could just be like a kid again. And I didn’t care whether it was perfect or not, I, I enjoyed my work more, I was more productive. But then, because they’re all linked, because we go at the fear, his procrastination lifted when he got home. He was so much calmer and so much more joyful. So the engineer in me wants to get the most results for people with the least amount of money and the least amount of work efficiency. It’s kind of sexy.

Daniel Packard [00:55:10]:
So from a results perspective, if one goes at the body, what we saw was because it’s as close to the root cause, and most importantly, you can get great results because the body is a system and bodies can break down. And bottom, these problems, or at least a major contributor that people aren’t seeing, is that basic daily care of a system went missing. So the downside is, if you don’t know how to take care of your nervous system, which nobody does, we decoded 28 ways you should be taking care of your system. The average person does, I think five, but not even consistently so. They don’t even know all the ways that they should be taking care of themselves. So the downside is if you don’t learn to take better care of this system in your body, which is what we teach you, will always have underneath, a bit of worry, anxiety, fear, nervousness, because the system’s just not being cared for. That’s the downside. And at best, all you can do is keep managing these symptoms of the nervousness.

Daniel Packard [00:56:12]:
That’s the downside. But from a doability perspective, why is it good news to find out that a major problem is just little acts of care have gone missing? Why is that good news if we want a simple, doable solution?

Mark Divine [00:56:28]:
Because it’s solvable.

Daniel Packard [00:56:29]:
And why is it solvable?

Mark Divine [00:56:34]:
Because if you take action, it’ll reset the nervous system.

Daniel Packard [00:56:37]:
Yeah, but the key is, what action are we asking you to take? Doable action.

Mark Divine [00:56:41]:
Simple, doable.

Daniel Packard [00:56:42]:
It’s simple.

Mark Divine [00:56:43]:
If you actions, by the way, that would be happening in a normal, healthy family, community, country, culture. Yes, but they’ve been stripped out and everything’s radically unhealthy.

Daniel Packard [00:56:56]:
Yeah. And so people say, how do you get these results? How do you get a 90% success rate? It’s nothing fancy. There’s no wizardry here. There’s no Harry Potter spell. We’re just getting you to be healthy in an area where you weren’t taught health. It would be like if a person had a lifetime of tooth pain and they tried and they went to retreats and workshops and nobody ever told them about brushing and flossing. You could have a lifetime of tooth pain, and then somebody could clear it up by basically saying, hey, brush and floss. So essentially metaphorically, a lot of this fear, doubt, and anxiety is sort of like weight gain, Meaning weight gain is a direct result of.

Daniel Packard [00:57:31]:
Of unhealthy choices that accumulate over time to create weight gain. It’s just. That’s what it is. So if you want to lose weight, you don’t have to burn the ego. You don’t have to teleport to the past. You don’t have to do a mantra. You just have to go from little acts of poor dietary health to little acts of dietary health. And then the body heals and burns the fat.

Daniel Packard [00:57:52]:
It’s all doable. And that is why we’re able to get these results. If you walk up to a person and say, I remember going to a retreat center and this guy, I told you the story, just said like, burn the ego. And I was like, what, where, where is it? How do I, is it what, how do you burn an ego? Or you know, just believe in yourself. That word just can be really misleading. Just where, how do I do it? But what we have in the six week program is all the tools that you need in one place. Simple structure, explanation. Here’s what you do on this day.

Daniel Packard [00:58:27]:
There’s about, for about five times a day for three minutes. When the feeling or the behavior is up, you apply the tool that we’ve guided you through. You apply the tool consistently. We have accountability built in to keep you consistent. And if you work the steps in the right order, you get the result. That’s the big innovation is the simple do ability. It ain’t sexy, but it gets results. Which I think is what people thought.

Mark Divine [00:58:52]:
You mentioned before we started that you’re. I can’t remember the term, but you’re working on proactive nothingness. Is that you said down in Mexico. Yeah, Just kind of like seeing what emerges. What do you. Do you have a sense of what’s going to emerge next for you?

Daniel Packard [00:59:09]:
Ooh, thank you for asking. I don’t really like to talk about myself, Mark. Yeah, well, one thing. So my new practice, which I call proactive nothingness is to basically. Yeah. To do mindfully nothing. No have to’s, no supposed to’s, no shoulds. And to just sit, not for an hour, not for a day, but just make that my new permanent default state.

Daniel Packard [00:59:42]:
And to sit in that, but also with a intention of just real trust. Not okay, fine, I’ll trust the universe. I mean real, real trust. Which in the beginning was a bit challenging because there’s a little tendency to control and grab and clasp. So I’m about three months in of just waking up every morning and from a place of love and just intuition. I do whatever the f I want and just sit in that nothingness.

Mark Divine [01:00:10]:
That’s a great practice. Love that.

Daniel Packard [01:00:12]:
And then what I’ve seen is then you’re trusting. The universe loves to be trusted. The universe doesn’t like a control Freak. So then you allow for the blessings to appear.

Mark Divine [01:00:21]:
Things that need to happen will still happen.

Daniel Packard [01:00:23]:
Yeah. And so this guy reached out to me from Sweden, he heard me on a podcast and he said, we are building this huge network of systems online to create systemized scalable impact. And I just, the engineer me was like, hello, where have you been all my life? And he said, I heard you on a podcast, you got a system that helps lower fear, that could be taught in schools. And I said, uh huh. And so we’ve been talking and he’s building out this entire network, multiple levels that where what we’ve got is going to be one piece of his entire system. And he asked me what I wanted to get out of it. And I said two things. One is I want these tools to get out to the world.

Daniel Packard [01:01:03]:
This more simple, effective, results based understanding, especially get it into schools. That would be meaningful. It’s what the world needs. And the other thing, as I spoke to him he said, you know what you need Daniel? You need community. And I felt and I said, I do need community. And I’ve been traveling all over the world building this system and I thought, I do, I wanna be with like minded people. And so the next thing for me I think is to work with them. I’m going to work with this gentleman in Sweden to get this into schools because there’s less bureaucracy in these smaller countries.

Daniel Packard [01:01:39]:
So we’re going to run some test pilot programs and get some data and try to get this into schools in Sweden. But also I’m going to connect with these people and go have fun and just have community.

Mark Divine [01:01:49]:
That’s awesome.

Daniel Packard [01:01:50]:
Thank you.

Mark Divine [01:01:50]:
Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me today. It’s been a fascinating conversation and I can’t wait to learn more about the program. DanielPacker.com is the website.

Daniel Packard [01:02:00]:
Yeah. Can I just take three minutes to kind of wrap things up and.

Mark Divine [01:02:03]:
No, no, we’re good.

Daniel Packard [01:02:04]:
Okay.

Mark Divine [01:02:06]:
We’ve said enough about the program.

Daniel Packard [01:02:08]:
Oh, I wasn’t going to talk about the program.

Mark Divine [01:02:09]:
Okay. But go ahead.

Daniel Packard [01:02:13]:
I want to distill everything I shared. Just kind of a takeaway for people to know. Is that okay?

Mark Divine [01:02:20]:
Sure.

Daniel Packard [01:02:22]:
What does my heart most want to say right now? I think, and I’ve said this before, yes, people are responsible for the tools that they buy and the things that they do. Yes, people aren’t willing to put in the work. But I really want to hope that people here are open to what I’m sharing. Because if you can see a bit of what I’m sharing you won’t blame yourself so much. I really felt broken, Mark, because I kept trying and it kept failing. And I know that shame and that guilt that I felt and I just want to invite people to know there’s nothing wrong with you and you are not broken. There’s some things that need some help and are fixable and solvable, but in the meantime, there’s just nothing wrong with you. You’re not broken.

Daniel Packard [01:03:14]:
And if you feel like you’re in a cage and you’re trapped, I know that feeling. But also to give them a bit of trust and hope that they don’t have to live like this if they don’t want to.

Mark Divine [01:03:24]:
Nice. Hoo ya.

Daniel Packard [01:03:26]:
Hoo ya hoo yah to that. Thank you.

Mark Divine [01:03:29]:
Thank you.

Daniel Packard [01:03:30]:
Wow.

Mark Divine [01:03:31]:
And thank you for tuning in to the Mark Devine show. I appreciate and as does Daniel, you walking this path with us to grow and to make a bigger impact in the world as a whole. Healed, anxiety free individual. If today’s episode moved you, please share it with a fellow warrior. And it’s very helpful if you leave a review and rate it wherever you listen. If you’d like to go deeper into the training that we offer at Unbuild Mind, check out our website unbielmind.com you can explore how you can work directly with me or my team in our personal leadership and transformation programs, vertical development or with your company. And you can follow us on Instagram at at Mark Divine Leadership for more insights and to send us ideas for shows and guests and all that type of thing. So till next time, stay unbeatable.

Mark Divine [01:04:20]:
Hoo yah. This is Divine out. Thank you sir.

Daniel Packard [01:04:24]:
Thank you.

Unknown [01:04:25]:
Hey, good job you guys.

Daniel Packard [01:04:27]:
Oh yeah. Is it is. I want to get it right. How does it, how often does he do that?