Mark Divine  [00:01:39]:

Catherine, thanks for joining me today.

Catherine Divine [00:01:41]:

Thanks for having me.

Mark Divine  [00:01:42]:

My pleasure. So how’s your physical mountain going these days?

Catherine Divine [00:01:45]:

My physical mountain is. Well, I’ve been in recovery from an injury, and so it’s, it’s, I’d say, not quite where I want it to be in my training, but I am being consistent with my practice of asana, which is the physical yoga practice and walking. And then I’ve also been doing. Which is like an emotional mountain linked to the physical. I’ve been doing a lot of meditations of paying attention to sensation in my body. And if there’s an emotion there, if it wants to be named.

 

Mark Divine  [00:02:21]:

Ah, so you’re crossing over physical, mental and emotional. See how quickly that happens? One of the key points that I made is that they are not distinct and separate. They’re just different aspects. Right. Of the experience. So even though we can name physical, mental, emotional, intuition, spiritual, ultimately it’s all one experience.

 

Catherine Divine [00:02:40]:

Yes.

 

Mark Divine  [00:02:41]:

But we can name and say, oh, that experience is physical. And sometimes you can even mistake the physical for mental. Right. Because let’s say you’re doing a body scan, for instance. Well, there’s a mental process that you go through to place your mind, I put air quotes around it, in different parts of your body to experience tension or to release tension. But ultimately it’s a physical experience. And so you begin to see very quickly that you can’t have a physical experience, including the experience of being. Being in this body, without your mind being completely involved in it.

 

Catherine Divine [00:03:14]:

Yes.

 

Mark Divine  [00:03:14]:

Otherwise you’re just completely disembodied being. Some people walk around pretending to be disembodied. They pretend they’re disconnected cognitively from the feeling state.

 

Catherine Divine [00:03:24]:

Yes.

 

Mark Divine  [00:03:25]:

But it’s still there. And by not paying attention to it, then they’re not living fully. They’re not experiencing the fullness of life.

 

Catherine Divine [00:03:33]:

No. They miss out so much. And, I mean, there’s quite a few different philosophies around what mind is. Right. And so I think, for me, when we talk about this, I always go to. Well, like, our body is our mind, body is mine.

 

Mark Divine  [00:03:46]:

It’s not separate from.

 

Catherine Divine [00:03:47]:

The mind isn’t located in the brain. It’s. The brain is a functioning organ that, you know, has all these amazing capacities. You know that one interview you did with Jill Taylor Bolt, which I just was. How she was talking about how the different spheres of our brains operate. That’s one aspect. But then she even said it like, it’s. There’s communication going on on all these different, you know, levels.

 

Catherine Divine [00:04:10]:

And so, like, when I am. So, yes, I am doing that. So that’s part of my physical mountain. I also got, you know, I’ve just got a facial. You can see my nice.

 

Mark Divine  [00:04:24]:

Don’t draw attention to things you don’t want people to pay attention to.

 

Catherine Divine [00:04:28]:

A nice black straight. So I don’t mind if they pay attention. But yeah, you’re right. Cut that out, please.

 

Mark Divine  [00:04:35]:

By the way. It’s okay. You can interrupt me and I can interrupt you because that’s the way that.

 

Catherine Divine [00:04:40]:

That’s fine. You can always interrupt me.

 

Mark Divine  [00:04:42]:

I just wanted to point out that another key point that I made in the physical mountain discussion was that injuries. I mean, I was going to go and say that they’re good, right? They’re informative.

 

Catherine Divine [00:04:57]:

Super informative.

 

Mark Divine  [00:04:58]:

They’re interesting. Be curious about the injury. You don’t have to like it, but if an injury occurs, then it’s an opportunity to, like, take a pause and step back and say, okay, why did that occur?

 

Catherine Divine [00:05:08]:

Yes.

 

Mark Divine  [00:05:09]:

Was there something that I was not aware of? Was there some capacity that I Overstepped my bounds on or was I not paying attention enough? Right. That I allowed something to happen for that accident to happen. And that’s usually the case. And so you can learn from it. Right. And you can adjust your behavior, you can get some training or skills, you get obviously some rehab. But most importantly, it should never derail you. Unless, I mean, I’m talking about the everyday injuries, like if you fall off a ladder and break your spine, God bless you.

 

Mark Divine  [00:05:38]:

But that’s different. Right. And you still obviously are going to end up needing an enormous amount of physical work to rehab. But let’s say we’re talking about the typical athletic injuries, you know what I mean? Broken bones or whatnot. That’s an opportunity to learn what you did wrong, maybe why it happened. And it could even be like the conversation we had. It could be something that you weren’t doing even in this lifetime.

 

Catherine Divine [00:06:02]:

Yes.

 

Mark Divine  [00:06:02]:

Right. It could be something you dragged in with you. But also to never stop training.

 

Catherine Divine [00:06:09]:

Yes. Which you’re very good at.

 

Mark Divine  [00:06:10]:

Never stop training.

 

Catherine Divine [00:06:12]:

You’re very good at that. I always find that challenging when I’ve, everybody does whenever I get injured because I’ve watched you and I’ve watched other seals that we worked with over the years always train around an injury.

 

Mark Divine  [00:06:21]:

Right.

 

Catherine Divine [00:06:22]:

And I, I, I remember that. I was like, wow, they just don’t stop.

 

Mark Divine  [00:06:25]:

Yeah. The doctors listening to this are being like, don’t go, don’t say that.

 

Catherine Divine [00:06:29]:

But like, for me, maybe we could talk about this part of the physical, you know, and like the how it ties in. But I know for me, like say when I broke my ankle with what, seven years ago, there was almost like this feeling of full stop.

 

Mark Divine  [00:06:43]:

Right. Well, I think your body is trained probably through our culture to do an all stop.

 

Catherine Divine [00:06:50]:

Yeah.

 

Mark Divine  [00:06:51]:

Right. And say, oh, wait, you know, you need. And psychologically it’s time for downtime even when you get sick. Right. It’s like you need to recover the body. And what I’m suggesting is that that’s a there, there is moment for all stop. It’s similar to like ice and compression. Right.

 

Mark Divine  [00:07:12]:

There’s a, there’s a immediate need if you have a blunt force trauma wound to compress it and to ice it to stop the blood flow. But if you spend two weeks icing it, you’re going to actually inhibit healing. So doing an all stop for training until you’re perfectly healed is similar to that analogy, right? Yes. Maybe for 24 to 48 hours or whatever the time period is, depending on the seriousness you may need to Be all powered down. I don’t mean, like, you get up and train 10 minutes after you’re injured.

 

Catherine Divine [00:07:45]:

Right.

 

Mark Divine  [00:07:46]:

I mean, it doesn’t take you off track for months or years.

 

Catherine Divine [00:07:50]:

Yes. Which it can.

 

Mark Divine  [00:07:51]:

Which a lot of injuries can.

 

Catherine Divine [00:07:52]:

Definitely can. And that’s one thing I wanted to ask you about what you presented in the solo cast around the physical mountain. And then what you’re saying right now is, okay, so some people might say, or it may be viewed as you’re saying, go, go, go. Always push through. So where is the balance in your opinion, you know, or in your experience? Let’s say in your, you know, like around how hard you push and how you encourage people to train. Right? Yeah, yeah.

 

Mark Divine  [00:08:25]:

Well, when I say training, I am actually referring to a balanced approach that includes effort and recovery.

 

Catherine Divine [00:08:33]:

Okay.

 

Mark Divine  [00:08:34]:

So when I say if you get injured, keep training, it doesn’t mean I’m saying, you know, like David Goggins, just go, keep going. You got 40% more even though you’re injured, even though you’re, you know, running on a broken leg. Suck it up, buttercup. No, I’m not saying that at all. What I’m saying is you actually probably need a little bit of extreme recovery if you get in when you get injured. But you should automatically be thinking those things, why did this happen? What did I learn? And now how am I going to continue my training, Right. Tomorrow or the next day, or maybe it’s a week later with modifications, or maybe I can’t even use that particular limb. Right.

 

Mark Divine  [00:09:11]:

And so it’s a great opportunity, Catherine, as you know, to suddenly try something new, to interrupt if it was a pattern that caused the injury. The injury’s telling you something. You know, it’s like our Ashtanga yoga folks, right? You do the same moving pattern for 10 years, and you’re going to get injured. You get injured, you pay attention to that and you’re like, oh, I got injured because I did the same movement pattern for 10 years. Maybe I should change my movement patterns. And so the wise yogi would change it up, right? Start doing something different, adding weight, training, functional fitness. Because a lot of those guys and women are just really, actually unhealthy in a lot of ways.

 

Catherine Divine [00:09:47]:

Well, that was with my left ankle. It was like that. So my left ankle broke doing a front handspring. A front. Yeah, handspring on a trampoline.

 

Mark Divine  [00:09:54]:

Right.

 

Catherine Divine [00:09:55]:

Which I hadn’t done a front handspring in probably a decade, if not two. I’ve never done one, and I hadn’t done one on a trampoline in like since I was six. So I was 40, I think, at the time. And however, I have over stretched ligaments on my right ankle. And so I believe when I did that, like what you’re saying, the investigation. Why did this happen is that I had my. Everything was tighter and more stressed on my left side because of the way I was favoring my ankles. And so it made me start to change the way that I walked, the way that I worked, mobility on my ankles.

 

Catherine Divine [00:10:35]:

And now and then, like since then I’ve ran two marathons, you know, so like I retrained my body again. And so I think that’s part of what I hear you saying anyways. Like, it’s, it’s like, okay, where’s the imbalance in the physical system that led to that bone breaking part of it? Yes. Front handspring on a trampoline. Trampolines are dangerous. We, you know, that was the first thing the orthopedic surgeon told me that the joke in orthopedic surgery is if you want to be in business and be busy, open up a trampoline park across from your orthopedic surgeon office. They said that’s like, you know, that’s like all the injuries that come in are a lot of those stuff.

 

Mark Divine  [00:11:09]:

That’s a pretty good business model.

 

Catherine Divine [00:11:12]:

So anyways, the. But then, but then it’s like you’re saying, why did this happen? Well, it happened because there was already an imbalance in my system. Right. And. And then you could also, I mean, we could go down that. I won’t too far. But that rabbit hole of like the energetic system, like the left side of the body versus the right side, the emotions, you know, of what’s being held in, let’s say the left ankle versus the right shoulder and.

 

Mark Divine  [00:11:35]:

Right. Well, you, you know, you bring up a good point because again, we are working toward experiencing life as an integrated whole person. Right? That’s what essentially all the wisdom traditions say that that’s the goal. Like yoking. Yoga is yoking. Right. Or reintegration. Whole mind kokoro.

 

Mark Divine  [00:12:01]:

And so the whole mind is inclusive of the body. Being whole person is obviously inclusive of the body. It’s not just about feeling whole or filling the childhood trauma wounds. Right. That’s all important. But those are experienced in the body. And so anytime you get into the work of therapy or even meditation, if you just lock yourself in your head and you think you can get where you’re hoping to go without the body, then you actually make it Worse, and you get to that emotional or spiritual bypassing where it’s all head up, neck up, and it’s not heart centered or embodied. And so it’s nice to see a growing field of somatic work and embodiment work in therapy so that we kind of reverse engineer getting the mind back into the body.

 

Mark Divine  [00:13:00]:

Well, I think that’s fine, but I like to work at it from both directions. This is omnidirectional training. So we get the body healthy, and we get really physically aware so that our mind is working better, our brain is healthier. The neurotransmitters and all the hormones are working and balanced, and the mood and attitude and your ability to be calm, all of that is improved through physical health and physical movement, exercise, the six pillars I talked about. So that then when you do that work of meditation. Right. And depth therapy and, you know, silent retreats, that you’re able to use your body, which is a vast storehouse of wisdom and intelligence.

 

Catherine Divine [00:13:46]:

Well, it also. What’s coming up for me, as you say, that is, I think of, like, the Seal Fit crucible challenges, you know, which I’ve done a couple of over the years and. Or, like, say again, running a marathon or even learning how to surf a few years ago, when you push yourself in that physical mountain. Right. So let’s say when we did, like, okay, we’re gonna do an hour playing cold after we’ve already been moving for six hours. I’m already. Now, okay. The story is in society that I should be fatigued, I should be hungry.

 

Catherine Divine [00:14:22]:

You know, I should be inflamed. Like, there are all these things that should be happening at six hours. And. But my experience actually, in any of the crucibles we did with Seal Fit, was I started getting stronger at some point. And. And then also part of that was checking in with, again, mental mountain. And the emotional is like, what stories are running. So I can either go, oh, I’m tired, and then totally go down that.

 

Catherine Divine [00:14:46]:

Or I can take my eyes off myself. Put it on a teammate.

 

Mark Divine  [00:14:50]:

Yeah. Do things to continually charge up.

 

Catherine Divine [00:14:52]:

Yep.

 

Mark Divine  [00:14:53]:

And body is a big battery. And so if you just allow it to be depleted through the way you’ve been trained, which is usually negative mental. Buying into the feeling of exhaustion, buying into the story that you have limited capacity if you lack sleep or if you lack nutrition, if you’ve been training for a long period of time, those are all stories. Like you said, the human body has infinite capacity because it’s generated by the mind. And so if the Mind continues to believe in infinite capacity, then you have it. And you’re right. The more extreme example was me for Hell Week, right? So Hell week is six days non stop training, no sleep. And I was getting stronger and stronger, like Thursday and Friday.

 

Mark Divine  [00:15:29]:

And I could have kept going because I believed that I was getting stronger. And I deliberately drew in more energy with every breath. And I maintain a positive attitude because I had these skills of breath control, visualization, mental management, and team focus. What we call those big four skills.

 

Catherine Divine [00:15:48]:

And that comes up too, is like the vision quests that I do, you know, where there’s the fasting of no food and no water for multiple days. It’s really similar to what you’re saying. It’s like, it’s a. And it’s a physical crucible in some ways. And one of those things is, like, my body has capacity beyond capable, 20.

 

Mark Divine  [00:16:09]:

Times more than you think you are. And then 20 times and 20 times again. And it never stops.

 

Catherine Divine [00:16:13]:

So one thing question I have, like, I mean, is, with you, like, when you asked me, how’s your physical mountain going? So we know, like, compared to our two personalities, um, I’m not necessarily as structured as you are with my. My physical workout routine. Um, I am very structured with my nutrition overall. Um, so I have that pretty dialed in. And sleep and recovery. So with the physical, with people that like, like me, that I love to be active, I like to challenge myself, yet I still get stuck in, you know, setting up the routine. What. What do you say to that? Is it an excuse that I’m giving myself? Is it laziness? Is it, you know, because you touched on those things for those of us that are like, yeah, I’m gonna exercise.

 

Catherine Divine [00:17:03]:

But, you know, and so the consistency, there’s often. Sometimes there’s a baseline that I don’t get past.

 

Mark Divine  [00:17:12]:

That’s a great question. So first of all, what you’re doing might be enough, right? You’re surfing. I mean, when you’re healed with your injury, you’re surfing several times a week, you’re doing yoga several times, if not every day, several times a week. You’re walking long distances, often with a weight vest, right?

 

Catherine Divine [00:17:32]:

Yeah.

 

Mark Divine  [00:17:34]:

For most people, that would be a pretty good regimen. Right? Now, what the gap is is that you’re used to doing more because you grew up as an athlete and you’ve done seal fit training and hiking in Himalayas and bare feet, right? So you have the capacity for much more. And so part of you is thinking, boy, I should be doing some of that. I Mean, I, I suffer from that too. Right. I have the capacity to do way more than I do right now. But right now, where I am at in this phase of life, like what I’m doing is perfect. And it’s maintaining a perfect, you know, a good, you know, steady state doesn’t mean that I won’t ratchet it up again.

 

Mark Divine  [00:18:13]:

Right. As my time frees up or as I, you know, get motivated. So anyways, that’s point number one. You’re already pretty good, so just make sure that you’re not judging yourself against a past standard. Right. Based upon where you are in your life. I mean, you just started your PhD for God’s sakes. Now if you do that self assessment and you say, I hear what you’re saying, Mark, I’m doing okay, but I still want to be more consistent with A.

 

Mark Divine  [00:18:38]:

Yeah. B. Right. C or C. And A could be like core work and B could be like more endurance. Right. Because you’re not doing a whole lot of like more, a little bit more high intensity. So that’s where environment really helps and coaching really helps.

 

Mark Divine  [00:18:53]:

Right. Because if you say, well, I really need to do that, but I don’t have the motivation and I, I know, I sort of know what to do, but it’d be really nice to have a guide then just suck it up and get a coach or have me write you, you know, a workout program that you just do twice a week and all you need when you’re doing a high intensity or core work, 20 minutes max. Yeah. So you’d be adding like two 20 minute training sessions, three at the most. And by the way, I think functional fitness, core work is really important for everybody to add to your repertoire. There’s a lot of people who are really fit in one or two domains, but, but those domains don’t necessarily connect everything together in the physical, in the physical structure. Functional fitness is like the glue or the sinews that tie all of your other, all of your other training activities. Right.

 

Mark Divine  [00:19:48]:

Especially if they’re monostructural. Like, you know, like triathletes. Running, swimming, biking takes enormous amount of time. You get in great cardiovascular shape, your quads get really strong, but your upper body gets really weak. Your core is weak and oftentimes it leads to an injury.

 

Catherine Divine [00:20:03]:

So doing like. And you couldn’t necessarily join like you on the grinder and do sandbag get ups or a bunch of like.

 

Mark Divine  [00:20:10]:

So your body’s things, right?

 

Catherine Divine [00:20:11]:

Yeah.

 

Mark Divine  [00:20:12]:

You know, you’re not going to be able to, you know, take long hikes with carrying a lot of load right Necessarily or it’s going to be really hard, you’re going to suffer.

 

Catherine Divine [00:20:20]:

And I actually believe that being able to carry heavy load is, takes people’s bodies out of survival mode. It’s one reason why I continue things.

 

Mark Divine  [00:20:30]:

That makes you feel strong and courageous.

 

Catherine Divine [00:20:32]:

It does. Because there we, I think on an instinctual level that we need to know that we could help somebody in a state of need in any moment and pick somebody up. But also if for some reason we needed to grab that bag, that go bag that we could and run with it. So one final question because I know we got to wrap it up is, you know, you had touched on like people saying they don’t have time, which I’ve heard a lot over the years too as a yoga instructor. I just don’t have time. I want to come to yoga. I don’t have time or you know, even in the CrossFit community when I coached the CrossFit classes. But is we were talking about this the other days around spot drills.

 

Catherine Divine [00:21:12]:

So like the excuse of no time just is really falls apart. It falls apart immediately. So for somebody who’s like say listening and they aren’t really that athletic but they listen to you because they get, they feel inspired. You know how to integrate spot drills, like really in a way that’s applicable.

 

Mark Divine  [00:21:35]:

Right. But the way to look at exercise is yes, it’s nice to have like four times a week where you get an hour at the gym but then you go. So you’ve got, you know, the half hour to get there and the half hour, you know, you know, so it’s for a lot of people that’s a two hour block of time. And I get it, they can’t afford it. I don’t do that. I don’t go to a gym, I don’t go to yoga studio or martial arts studio anymore. I do everything I need at my office or at my home and I’ve got the tools that I need there. And so when I say I’m going to do 20 minutes, it’s actually 20 minutes with maybe like two minutes to change my clothes on both ends or jump in the pool, you know.

 

Mark Divine  [00:22:13]:

So this point number one is like you don’t need to go to a gym. If you’re an executive and you don’t have a facility on your site and you’re working at a site, then put one in or put some stuff in your trunk of your car and go out to the park or whatever and just do it and Watch what happens and you’ll have people joining you pretty soon. So I always say that wherever you are, there’s your gym, it’s your body, right? Burpees free. There’s no tool for a burpee. There’s no tool for push ups and squats and sit ups and you can do pull ups on a tree trunk if you want. Secondarily. Again, even though it’s nice to do a longer session and I, I do believe everyone can prioritize the time to do 20 to 40 minutes three or four times a week. I challenge anyone to do it.

 

Mark Divine  [00:22:58]:

But there are people who are like running big companies that are booked from 7 to 7 or, you know what I mean? Or 6 to even 9 at night. And they’re like, dude, I don’t have the time.

 

Catherine Divine [00:23:09]:

Yeah, government officials. Yeah, a lot.

 

Mark Divine  [00:23:11]:

Maybe seals busy. That’s a whole different thing because we train all the time. But so in that regard, think of it just like, and I say minimum five minutes of box breathing in the morning when you wake up. Five minutes, you know, when you get home from work before you re enter the family. That’s those two training sessions right there are going to. Right. And you do it every single day are going to transform your life. Right.

 

Mark Divine  [00:23:36]:

And you can look at physical movement the same way. Right. So there you are at work and you’ve got time between things. If you’re smart, if you’re a good time management person, you always block time between meetings.

 

Catherine Divine [00:23:53]:

Let’s say 15 minutes.

 

Mark Divine  [00:23:54]:

Now a lot of people are listening, going, God, I wish I could do that or I need to do that. Just do it. Schedule meetings for 45 minutes instead of an hour. Make sure they go in your calendar for 45 minutes. Then you’ve got 15 minutes. Get up, go to the bathroom and in the bathroom do 50 squats.

 

Catherine Divine [00:24:09]:

Right?

 

Mark Divine  [00:24:09]:

Right. Walk around the building. When you’re out of sight, drop and do 20 or 30 pushups or 50 burpees. Do some deep breathing, do some more box breathing. And so you gotta have, you’ve got five or six or seven times during the day where you can just crank out some spot drills. And that cumulative effect is gonna have an enormous positive effect on your physical strength. And especially if you’re doing functional fitness and not just walking around the building all the time.

 

Catherine Divine [00:24:36]:

And that’s one thing too that I know you’re going to touch on in later podcasts is around the layered training. Right?

 

Mark Divine  [00:24:41]:

Yeah.

 

Catherine Divine [00:24:42]:

So how to maximize time, right. In different ways of like while you’re box breathing you can also visualize.

 

Mark Divine  [00:24:49]:

Right. So it’s a great point. We will hit that up later. Everything that we do, we want maximum effect. So we look at the five mountains. Say how can I turn these spot drills into an, you know, multidimensional integrated training. So if I’m doing squats, I’m also combining a breath practice with that and maybe some imagery and a mantra. Right.

 

Mark Divine  [00:25:07]:

If I’m doing pull ups. Right. Same thing. So we really want to with our physical mantra. I’ll kind of end with this. Thanks for your great questions. Is to use the body to re embody the mind, right?

 

Catherine Divine [00:25:23]:

Yes.

 

Mark Divine  [00:25:23]:

And so you’re delivering the mind.

 

Catherine Divine [00:25:25]:

You just said it real quick. Say it again.

 

Mark Divine  [00:25:26]:

So you use your body to train.

 

Catherine Divine [00:25:28]:

Your mind to re embody your mind. That was it. But you just said. Because I have to reiterate it because it was exactly what is so important.

 

Mark Divine  [00:25:36]:

You train your mind.

 

Catherine Divine [00:25:37]:

Living head up.

 

Mark Divine  [00:25:38]:

Right. But that’s a learned behavior.

 

Catherine Divine [00:25:39]:

If we actually learn to re embody the mind now so much and all the now of those domains, the mountains are all being crossed. Yeah, that’s, that’s it. Because then when an emotion arises, if I’m re embodied, I’m going to notice, I have a feeling and I’m not going to react from it.

 

Mark Divine  [00:25:57]:

You’re not going to react and I’m.

 

Catherine Divine [00:25:58]:

Not going to get a knee injury because of it.

 

Mark Divine  [00:26:00]:

And you’re probably going to make friends with that emotion and understand why it’s in your body and hopefully let it pass if it’s negative. If it’s not, then you just notice and be like, oh, hello friend.

 

Catherine Divine [00:26:10]:

Yeah, hello friend. And I always have a hard time not jumping to the emotional mountain with physical from teaching the way I’ve taught.

 

Mark Divine  [00:26:16]:

We’ll have a conversation about that soon.

 

Catherine Divine [00:26:18]:

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me today.

 

Mark Divine  [00:26:19]:

You’re welcome. Thank you. Thanks for joining us today on the Mark Divine Show. I hope you found this interesting and valuable. Go train your physical mountain. Don’t leave it behind. Don’t be one of those people who lives from the head up, disembodied like a ghost, hungry ghost. You can find the show [email protected] also at our weekly newsletter, Divine Inspiration.

Mark Divine  [00:26:40]:

You can also subscribe to [email protected], the video will be on our YouTube channel. Go look for the Mark Divine show on YouTube. Thanks to my incredible team, Catherine Divine and John Dahlgren of JET Studios for helping produce this show and the newsletter. Please rate and review the show wherever you listen. It’s very helpful. Helped me get to 5,000 five star reviews and stay at the top of the rankings and to grow our audience. Please refer to your friends and thanks for being part of the change that you want to see in the world. Thanks for doing the work and we’re here to support.

Mark Divine  [00:27:14]:

Till next time, stay focused, be physical, divine outlet.