[00:00:44] Mark Divine: Thanks for joining me on the Mark Divine Show. 

[00:00:46] Ajay Tejasvi: Pleasure to be here, Mark. Thank you for having me. 

[00:00:49] Mark Divine: Oh, you’re welcome. So you’re coming to us from Washington, D. C. where the, you said the headquarters of the Art of Living Foundation? 

[00:00:55] Ajay Tejasvi: Yes, yes. Our U. S. headquarters are here in Washington, D. C. It’s on Meridian Hill, which was envisioned as the new Meridian for the world.

[00:01:04] Ajay Tejasvi: Uh, so we’re right over here on Meridian Hill, just about a mile from the White House. 

[00:01:09] Mark Divine: That’s interesting. There’s so much symbolism that was, uh, brought into the construction of that city, you know, by the Founding Fathers. It’s fascinating when you get, when you get back there and really understand the thought that they put in it.

[00:01:19] Mark Divine: Yeah. 

[00:01:19] Ajay Tejasvi: Yeah. 

[00:01:20] Mark Divine: I’d love to, like, hear about your journey and, you know, a little bit about your origin story and where you’re from and what were your influences growing up and kind of what led you on this particular path. 

[00:01:30] Ajay Tejasvi: Thanks, Mark. I was born in India, in Bangalore, in southern India, and my family was very involved with social and community initiatives for a very long time.

[00:01:42] Ajay Tejasvi: And so I was sort of brought into it in a very natural way. And I think it was also fortuitous that my mother’s elder brother was Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, uh, Gurudev Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, so the founder of the Art of Living. So in one sense, So 

[00:01:57] Mark Divine: you’re related to that. 

[00:01:58] Ajay Tejasvi: Yes. So in one sense, I was born into the Art of Living.

[00:02:01] Ajay Tejasvi: So from a very young age, I had this exposure to these ideas that the whole world is our family. And what can we do? To truly make the world a better place. And when you grew up in an environment like that, which is focused on what can you do more than just thinking about yourself, you really are able to live life from that perspective.

[00:02:26] Ajay Tejasvi: You really see that, you know, it’s not just about your needs and your wants, but it’s like, okay, how can I be of use? In this world. And so in one sense from, uh, you know, my mother’s involvement with, with the art of living and my, my parents as well, they’re very actively involved. And so with my mother’s involvement with education initiatives for girl children, or those less fortunate to women’s empowerment, to rural development, all of those causes really appeal to me.

[00:02:58] Ajay Tejasvi: And so even as I went through engineering school, I was I was looking at ways in which we can help realize the benefits of technology for the largest number of people possible. And so I have an engineering degree and a master’s in AI from the university of Southern California. But while I was doing that, I also faced a lot of challenges in actually getting this technology to the people.

[00:03:24] Ajay Tejasvi: There was a lot of corruption and a lot of differences. To the people in 

[00:03:29] Mark Divine: India, you mean? Or in what way were you doing that? 

[00:03:31] Ajay Tejasvi: I was part of a team that developed this device called a Simputer. Like a simple computer. And this was in the late 90s. And the idea was to have, just like you have, it was almost like a, It’s a very rudimentary iPad sort of a device.

[00:03:45] Ajay Tejasvi: At the time it was quite cutting edge. And the idea was we would have one of these installed in each village post office. And so people who weren’t able to write necessarily could send each other voice notes. And so the idea was to improve communication. 

[00:04:01] Mark Divine: Almost like an internet kiosk. 

[00:04:02] Ajay Tejasvi: Exactly, exactly.

[00:04:04] Ajay Tejasvi: But there were a lot of challenges in actually trying to implement those. And so, a lot of my friends went ahead and did their own thing. You know, they went back to the private sector. But by this time I was already in the U. S. I was at USC, I was studying. My master’s in, in robotics and AI. And I felt like given my upbringing, I was like, we need to do something to give back.

[00:04:26] Ajay Tejasvi: I want to do something else. And so at that time I applied for and received an internship at the world bank and I worked on anti corruption. I helped put together some of the research that went behind the International Anti Corruption Conference in 2003. 

[00:04:42] Mark Divine: That’s a very deep hole to go down. 

[00:04:46] Ajay Tejasvi: So it was quite a switch actually for me, Mark.

[00:04:48] Ajay Tejasvi: It was very different from the technical side to a space where it was mostly involved with people and people to people relationships. 

[00:04:57] Mark Divine: When it comes to working for an institution like the World Bank, which is, you know, has pretty rigid structures and a very distinctive worldview and you coming from this very kind of open hearted kind of spiritual perspective, you know, art of living, you know, obviously has deep roots in Ayurveda and yoga.

[00:05:16] Mark Divine: What was that like for you? Did you feel constricted or was it a growth opportunity? 

[00:05:21] Ajay Tejasvi: I looked at it as a growth opportunity, Mark. It did push me to learn more, not just about myself, but also about how I could connect with people and meet them where they are. And I feel like each one of us is where we are by the virtue of our own conditioning, our own experiences in life, our own belief systems, obviously.

[00:05:40] Ajay Tejasvi: And so, for me, the only way that we could actually succeed was to connect with those people, because, I mean, there’s no use preaching to the choir. You need to get to people who are in positions, who are able to effect change as well, in a positive way. And so, it was really interesting, because that’s when I switched gears, I ended up going to Georgetown University here in D.

[00:06:04] Ajay Tejasvi: C. So I ended up with a Master of Science in Foreign Service, focusing on development. And the idea was how do we then bring people to a more, uh, I would say a space of dialogue and mutual understanding and mutual cooperation as well. So eventually I ended up with a PhD in leadership and political science, focusing on ways in which national executives could help states come out of this cycles of poverty and violence.

[00:06:35] Ajay Tejasvi: And there, it was all of this background of mine that really helped, where we looked at how the individual change agent is so crucial in this whole institutional setup. We often tend to think of institutions as this monolithic creature, which just, you know, behaves in certain ways to certain incentives or other structures, essentially.

[00:06:59] Ajay Tejasvi: The carrot or the stick, essentially, right? What I was able to bring to this This equation was that the individual change agent is a critical part of the solution. We need to empower the individual with the tools that she or he can really manage themselves in the best way possible. And you’ve done this yourself in your life, and you’ve seen this.

[00:07:23] Ajay Tejasvi: From your service, thank you very much for your service, obviously, in defense of democracy and our ideals of freedom. How do you then provide that same freedom for such individuals? I mean, see, all of us join these institutions out of a higher calling, isn’t it? There’s something that we want to give back to this earth.

[00:07:43] Ajay Tejasvi: We want to give back to society in some way. We want to make this world a better place. And how do you provide these individuals with the tools to manage themselves better? So that they can be the best version for what society needs. And that was a little bit of my journey, Mark. So I was able to integrate some of these into a leadership program that I eventually ended up managing before I left the World Bank about six years ago.

[00:08:09] Ajay Tejasvi: It was called the Collaborative Leadership for Development Program. And this essentially was founded on the premise that in order for you to effect systemic change. You need to be able to provide the individual change agent with the methods and the tools with which they could Transform themselves.

[00:08:30] Ajay Tejasvi: That’s right 

[00:08:30] Mark Divine: We need to be the change that we want to see In our world whether that’s changing and being a change agent at an institution organization or you know Humanity at large. Hi Mark Divine here from seal fit after two years of development I’m super stoked to announce the launch of seal fit supplements and our first product seal fit electro greens This is the highest quality organic greens you can find combined with electrolytes into one powerful supplement take with eight ounces of water in the morning or add to your smoothie to get your day kicked off right with a proper nutritional supplementation and hydration support.

[00:09:08] Mark Divine: And you can also use it as a pick me up booster during the day or after a workout, it dissolves immediately. And believe it or not, it tastes great. I’ve had many testimonials already saying it’s the best tasting greens. That they have ever tried. So who, yeah, Sylvia supplements. com, or you can find it on Amazon by searching for seal fit electro greens.

[00:09:32] Mark Divine: Who? Yeah, let’s do this divine out.

[00:09:40] Mark Divine: That is delicious. That’s fascinating. I love that you went to Claremont. I kind of was up the road. I’m finishing up at Pepperdine with a PhD in global leadership and change, which is not too dissimilar. So we have a lot in common there. And I, too, share your view because of my long history with meditation and yoga that ultimately change must come from within.

[00:10:05] Mark Divine: And yet, of course, the Western model has been trying to force change, you know, systemically or through policy. And we see that oftentimes that leads to suboptimal results. So I think this really kind of next wave of leadership, and this is something I’m working on in my dissertation and beyond, built upon my work, is really I don’t call it vertical development.

[00:10:24] Mark Divine: It’s really to bring consciousness, awareness, evolutionary impulse to individuals so that they can, as you described, be more capable of leading wholly with greater world centric perspectives and open hearted compassion and care and concern. People are starting to wake up post COVID that this is a Absolutely necessary for humanity to thrive in the AI age and to deal with all the disruption and violence that we’ve, you know, the long tail of the Kali Yuga.

[00:10:52] Mark Divine: So here we are, right, having these conversations and there’s a lot of people and I honor you for your work. I encourage everyone who’s listening to really, you know, take this to heart. Like you, you have to be the change you want. Gandhi had a spot on. You have to be the change you want to see in the world because Ajay, there’s not one world out there.

[00:11:10] Mark Divine: There’s eight billion worlds. 

[00:11:11] Ajay Tejasvi: Exactly. 

[00:11:12] Mark Divine: Eight billion worlds. And so you create beauty in your world first. Truth, wisdom, and love. Beauty. And then, then you can go push it on other people. But if you haven’t created that in yourself, then your leadership is going to fall flat. It’s going to be that one dimensional, horizontal kind of transactional leadership.

[00:11:32] Ajay Tejasvi: Just to build on that, Mark, I think, see, unless you’re at peace with yourself, then the thoughts or the emotions or the feelings of the person next to you is the last thing on your mind. Unless you’re able to connect to yourself in a real way. You’re not able to connect to the person next to you in a meaningful way at all, right?

[00:11:54] Ajay Tejasvi: There’s no empathy there. So this is where our leadership model that Gurudev had talks about, Sri Sri Ravishankar, the founder of the art of living. So he talks about having the ABCs of leadership. And so a, you would say is awareness, awareness of your own thoughts, of your own emotions. of your own energy from within, connecting to that source of energy from within.

[00:12:21] Ajay Tejasvi: And with that awareness, comes this understanding of belongingness, the B of leadership, which is you belong to not just your own nuclear family, but you are connected with a larger community. You’re connected to the city. You’re connected. This is my state, my country, my world. My human family or my planet 

[00:12:45] Mark Divine: ultimately, there’s no separation exactly that right 

[00:12:48] Ajay Tejasvi: exactly and that has to come from within and with that comes a sense of commitment, a commitment to do more commitment to just not just think about your own prosperity, your own benefit, but to think of the collective because when the collective prospers.

[00:13:05] Ajay Tejasvi: Then you’re also going to be happy. When you’re happy and everybody else is unhappy, how is that sustainable? And I think this is where this whole, I think, principle hits the nail on its head, especially of our times today. We’re so connected today than at any point in human history. But at the same time, so many people feel alone, isn’t it?

[00:13:28] Mark Divine: Well, technology can be used to connect or to disconnect. And so we’ve got to learn how to use it a little bit more wisely. 

[00:13:35] Ajay Tejasvi: I think as you are, Mark, with such inspiring conversations, I think it’s, we all do our bit. 

[00:13:41] Mark Divine: I love the ABCs, by the way. I wrote those down. I was like, Oh yeah, that sounds awesome. And I love the commitment because it’s not enough just to develop awareness and belongingness.

[00:13:50] Mark Divine: You know, then there’s this, the more aware you are, the more compelled you are to serve. And 

[00:13:55] Ajay Tejasvi: Yes. 

[00:13:55] Mark Divine: Right? 

[00:13:56] Ajay Tejasvi: Yes. 

[00:13:56] Mark Divine: So karma and dharma, karma is the, the whole point of karma, awareness about that is you’re getting the right lessons. You’re not avoiding the hard lessons and the things that you need to evolve. And dharma is to align with that, you know, that unique calling that only you have, right?

[00:14:12] Mark Divine: That unique reason for incarnating in your unique way that, that you’re meant to serve. Even if it’s just to be the most, you know. present mom, right? Or the strong dad, right? It doesn’t matter how many people you serve. You don’t need to be an Elon Musk, right? Or a Gandhi. You just need to serve in a way that’s yours.

[00:14:33] Mark Divine: And in doing so, you don’t create any more negative karma. So that’s, it’s amazing that kind of infinity loop that accrues. So that compulsion to serve comes out of mastery of the self. This is what my, you know, people say, what’s your purpose, Mark? And I say, well, my purpose is very simple, self mastery in service.

[00:14:54] Mark Divine: And so it’s very broad, very archetypal. That’s it. You know, the purpose of life is to live in the way that you were meant to live. And in order to do that, you need to develop awareness and beingness, belongingness, and you need to serve. I mean, you’re committed. So I love that. 

[00:15:09] Ajay Tejasvi: Absolutely, Mark. Absolutely.

[00:15:11] Ajay Tejasvi: Couldn’t agree with you more. 

[00:15:13] Mark Divine: I figured. So, self awareness, though, it’s a tricky thing for Westerners, right? We’ve been trained, conditioned from birth to be looking outward, to think the world is solely objective reality, to experience the world as separate from us, and then we’re conditioned to be busy, to be always on the go, It gets worse and worse as technology has gotten more and more pervasive, and eventually it’s going to be connected to us.

[00:15:42] Mark Divine: Well, it already is connected to us, or most people’s in the hand 12 hours a day. So people don’t seem to be able to find the time or haven’t learned to take the time, develop the time, practice and whatnot. So how have you found success in helping people slow down, turn within, and develop their 

[00:16:03] Ajay Tejasvi: People are on a quest.

[00:16:06] Ajay Tejasvi: I mean, there are a lot of people who are looking for something more in life. who want to feel that sense of connection, who want to feel that sense of belonging. And what I’ve found over the, I’ve had the blessings of being a meditator for over 30 years and having taught the Art of Living’s programs for almost 25 years now, To various age groups, from kids to national leaders.

[00:16:31] Ajay Tejasvi: And what I find is that inside each and every one of us is still that innocent child. And somehow, as we’ve gone through life, all of these experiences have layered on all these stresses that cloud us from really seeing who we are truly. I mean, I’m sure you would agree with me that a child is enlightened.

[00:16:55] Ajay Tejasvi: Thank you. 

[00:16:55] Mark Divine: Enlightenment is our natural state. 

[00:16:57] Ajay Tejasvi: That’s our natural state. But the ego 

[00:16:59] Mark Divine: just hides it from us. 

[00:17:01] Ajay Tejasvi: Exactly. And I think the understanding that I have and the experience that I have is that, you know, ego is part of us, it’s part of who we are. But allowing the ego just to be there enough so that it’s like salt in your food.

[00:17:16] Ajay Tejasvi: It’s not overpowering. Like some of us, the ego just takes over and makes us see what is this ego. Let’s just, maybe we can spend a moment on this ego, right? Now the ego itself is the sense of me, me, me, right? 

[00:17:30] Mark Divine: Right. Sense of personal identity. 

[00:17:32] Ajay Tejasvi: Exactly. And it’s also what makes us feel unnatural. Isn’t it in a situation?

[00:17:38] Ajay Tejasvi: I would agree 

[00:17:39] Mark Divine: with that. Right. Because the ego is always going to be operating in survival mode because that’s its construct. Its purpose is to keep us alive. 

[00:17:47] Ajay Tejasvi: Exactly. And it’s important. We need that. But at the same time, if you’ve noticed as children, I mean, you would have seen children in a park, right?

[00:17:58] Ajay Tejasvi: They might have never met before. They don’t have a problem playing with one another. I mean, I have two young boys and I remember. Like when they were much younger, we would go to a park in the, in the neighborhood. They’d just go play with somebody who they’ve never met before. share and play. And I think that is our natural state.

[00:18:17] Ajay Tejasvi: I mean, we call ourselves social animals, right? I mean, we are part of connection. We are part of that one human family in one sense, as Gurudev says. What I see, And in my own life as well, as you grow up in one sense, right? The sense of me grows to a point where it’s not helping me in a situation. It’s not helping me connect.

[00:18:42] Ajay Tejasvi: And because of that, it’s not going the way I want it. And so I get all of the stress. I accumulate all of these impressions, if you so call it. And these impressions then cause me or lead me to not express myself appropriately, which leads to suboptimal results. So there’s stress leading to suboptimal results, which leads to more stress, which then impacts the way I interact with my fellow human being.

[00:19:12] Mark Divine: And it impacts your health in a big way. 

[00:19:14] Ajay Tejasvi: Exactly, in a very big way. And so all along this process, we haven’t figured out how to deal with our difficult emotions. You mentioned this, right? How do you deal with the difficult situations in your life? Spirituality to me is not like something that you do in the morning when you sit and meditate.

[00:19:35] Ajay Tejasvi: Or in the evening when you meditate and breathe, that’s not spirituality. Spirituality is who I am, who you are. We are beings of the spirit and how we manage ourselves, how resilient we are to the challenges in our life. That is spirituality. Spirituality is the truest education that we need. To be able to be successful in life.

[00:20:00] Ajay Tejasvi: And for me, success would be an undying smile. 

[00:20:05] Mark Divine: Well happiness, right? Is your natural state as well. Satchitananda, the unconscious bliss. The reason bliss is experienced is because it’s your natural state, right? But it’s, it’s clouded by the ego. It’s clouded by all those false expectations and false ideas of who you are or you think you’re supposed to be.

[00:20:27] Ajay Tejasvi: And how do you overcome that? Or how do you manage that? That is where the breath has a very big secret to tell you agree with that 

[00:20:36] Mark Divine: I’m anxious to hear your secret of the breath because I totally agree with you because to me and I but I want to comment on what you said about spirituality because people have a A strange view about spirituality just like they do a meditation.

[00:20:49] Mark Divine: The terms are corrupted Let’s just say we are spiritual beings. So spirit is you Exactly. You are spirit Mistaking yourself as a separate, you know, body mind. Spirituality doesn’t have to be, like, come in all flowery robes and all this, you know, religious language and trappings and ritual. That’s not spirituality.

[00:21:15] Mark Divine: Spirituality is your natural state. You are God. You are. Source. Absolutely. It’s the simplest thing ever. Doesn’t need any language. In fact, language can’t even begin to capture it. ’cause all language is in duality. So I love that because it is our natural state. So you don’t have to have any special training.

[00:21:35] Mark Divine: You don’t have to subscribe to any guru or any spiritual tradition because you are that. 

[00:21:41] Ajay Tejasvi: And to realize that though, Mark, you do need somebody who has already experienced that. It’s helpful. That is where it’s helpful to have a guide. See, the word guru is also so used and abused, right? That’s right. It just means guide, 

[00:21:55] Mark Divine: yeah.

[00:21:56] Ajay Tejasvi: Yeah, it just means guide. And in Sanskrit, if you were to go to the root of this, of the word guru, Ga in Sanskrit is the root sound for gyan or wisdom, nana. And ra is to flow from. And so guru literally means that aspect or that principle within you from where wisdom flows. Thank you. And we’ve all, like you said it, we’ve all been gurus to somebody in our lives, isn’t it?

[00:22:21] Ajay Tejasvi: For sure. We’ve all been guides to somebody in our lives. So just like we have, you know, Google and all of these other resources that guide us on so many different questions that we have for questions about the spirit, about learning about the nature of our existence, the nature of our life, it really helps.

[00:22:41] Ajay Tejasvi: When we have a being who has experienced that, who has knowledge of how to walk into that realm of the spirit, into that realm of understanding. Because what you’re saying is absolutely true. We are the divine, we are the spirit, we are the eternal spirit. But how do I experience that? And how does it become more than just a concept?

[00:23:05] Ajay Tejasvi: How does it become my experience? And that’s where the head, the journey from the head to the heart. That is often the longest one that we give. That’s right. 

[00:23:14] Mark Divine: Right. I totally agree with you. Yeah, it’s 12 inches, but it seems like a lifetime. Because of the training and conditioning. You know, the ego structures, they, they hide that truth.

[00:23:24] Mark Divine: And so it’s very helpful to have a trusted guide who can take you on a path. And as I say, there’s, there’s countless paths up spiritual mountain. You just need to start on a path. 

[00:23:36] Ajay Tejasvi: Absolutely. 

[00:23:37] Mark Divine: For some it’s the path of the head, the yoni path, for some it’s the path of the heart. the bhakti path and for some it’s the path of, you know, the hands, the karma path.

[00:23:45] Mark Divine: All are valid, but they all end up meeting at the same place. That’s awesome. 

[00:23:50] Ajay Tejasvi: Ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti, right? There is one truth and the wise know that there are many paths to that truth. 

[00:23:57] Mark Divine: Absolutely. Beautifully said. So, you know, Patanjali on his eight limbs, he talks about, you know, Pranayama coming after asana, so you pair the body through healthy practices, through movement practices, through cleansing and wringing the organs and, you know, opening up the spine so the nadis, you know, can, the energy can flow freely.

[00:24:18] Mark Divine: And then comes pranayama. And I think that’s, extraordinarily wise because first we got to control and connect with the breath because the breath moves the mind. The breath and consciousness are one. And so when I teach, I always start with breath. I do a similar thing where I help people get healthy first.

[00:24:37] Mark Divine: You know, it’s kind of like called the wax on wax off principle. Like, you know, when the kid went to Miyagi and the karate kid and you know, he wanted to learn the advanced techniques. He said no you go wax wax the fence, right? Basically, he’s saying get all that all the expectations get your body healthy, you know, just start preparing the ground to make it more fertile for those advanced techniques to kind of take hold.

[00:25:02] Mark Divine: So that’s what the, uh, yama and niyamas and asana are all about. But then, the magic starts happening with pranayama. And so I teach that as kind of like the doorway, or the gateway, or the bridge between the body and the mind and the spirit, between the physical, the metaphysical, and the non physical. And so, that alone, if that’s your only path, it’s enough, because that takes you inward to where the sad guru or the inner guru becomes your guide.

[00:25:29] Ajay Tejasvi: Yes. So, I’d love to hear, like, your perspectives on breath work and, and how you teach it. Is there a simple practice that you found is very effective? 

[00:31:29] Ajay Tejasvi: Yes, Mark. So, at The Art of Living, we offer, uh, I would say eight hour program, eight hour journey that you learn certain ways of breathing that can then help you.

[00:31:41] Ajay Tejasvi: I mean, essentially you leave the program with a daily practice and you understand a little bit about the various aspects of your own being. So Gurudev talks about the seven layers of our existence and understanding a little bit of each of these seven layers then helps us or you. You know, it’s like understanding that then helps you see differently as well, right?

[00:32:04] Ajay Tejasvi: So you begin with that, okay, that I’m not just this body. At the most tangible level, yes, the body is there, but subtler than the body is the breath. Subtler than this breath is my mind through which I perceive this world, right? That goes out, I’m seeing through this mind. Yes, the eyes are there, but it’s the mind that perceives through the eyes.

[00:32:26] Ajay Tejasvi: So, uh, Understanding this and then from there, you go to this place where you understand that there’s an intellect, an aspect of my being, which is the intellect, which is judging what I’m understanding what I’m saying, right? Right now, in your mind, in your being, there is this conversation. Okay, that makes sense.

[00:32:44] Ajay Tejasvi: It doesn’t make sense. Whatever it is, right? Are you aware of this internal dialogue that we have with ourselves? That is the aspect of the intellect. Subtler than that is our memory, where we store all of these impressions of this life and many past lives as well, as you mentioned. And subtler than that is the ego, that we discussed about briefly.

[00:33:09] Ajay Tejasvi: And beyond that layer is the self, or the Atman, or the consciousness. So, in one sense, this whole journey for us is to understand how these different layers are interlinked. exist and how we can attain that union with our own being, overcoming all of these stresses and, and these kleshas that you mentioned, right?

[00:33:34] Ajay Tejasvi: These impurities or imperfections that are the wax around our being. So just on the program itself, you learn a little bit about each of these different layers. And then very quickly you look at, okay, when is it that you can feel happy? How is it that you can be happy? How is it that you can overcome these stresses that cloud our perception?

[00:33:55] Ajay Tejasvi: And so there’s a little bit of focus on the energy levels within us. How do you increase the energy levels and what the different sources of energy are? So after a little bit of that exploration, you go straight to the breath. which you mentioned, the pranayamas, which are like pranayama, literally the regulation of the subtle life force energy within ourselves.

[00:34:17] Ajay Tejasvi: And so on the program, you learn a specific breathing technique called the sky breath meditation. The sky itself stands for Sudarshan Kriya Yoga. It was a technique that was cognized by Gurudev more than 43, 44 years ago. And it involves patterns. It involves harmonizing the emotions and the thoughts using the breathing patterns, certain rhythmic breathing patterns.

[00:34:44] Ajay Tejasvi: And so you learn that technique in addition to, you know, the victory breath, what we call the victory breath, which is the Ujjayi breath that you might be familiar with. We have what is known as the bellows breath or the Bhastrika. And all of these come together to form the sky and the rhythmic breathing technique itself, which you learn on this program.

[00:35:05] Ajay Tejasvi: And after this, there are also a few keys, you know, some golden principles with which to manage our own minds. through different challenges in life. See, because life throws so many challenging situations at us, right? And in the heat of the moment, how do you then deal with those situations? in a way that is not hurting yourself, in a way that is not going to compound the amount of stress in your being.

[00:35:32] Ajay Tejasvi: So these are some golden principles also that we share with participants on the program. So it’s a very comprehensive program, Mark, that looks at us as an integrated whole. It’s not like slicing it up, but giving us a full understanding of of our being. And how do you walk away with a practical tool, a technique that you can practice for 20 minutes a day in the morning and find that rejuvenation.

[00:36:01] Ajay Tejasvi: And this is like you mentioned yourself also you spoke about Patanjali’s yoga sutras. And Maharishi Patanjali talks about how yoga itself means to connect, isn’t it, yuja, is to connect the mind which is so scattered to the present moment. And how do you do that? You do that with the body and the breath.

[00:36:22] Ajay Tejasvi: which are both in the present moment, isn’t it? So all of this preparation, all of the yoga, all of the asanas, the understanding of the yama and niyama, all of this contribute to this integrated whole that who we are and this perspective that as a being we are more than just this body. We are more than the mind.

[00:36:45] Ajay Tejasvi: And beyond mindfulness is where the realm of the spirit is. So how do you get there? As you know, Shri Krishna said that, yatra vacho nivartante aprapya manasaasah. Or I think it was Maharshi Patanjali who said that, where, don’t quote me on it, but one of those great beings said this, and it’s really, where the mind cannot reach, where words fail to reach, where the mind is not able to comprehend.

[00:37:17] Ajay Tejasvi: That is the realm of the being. That is the realm of the soul. That is who you are. And so, a daily practice of this. you not only get rid of the stresses, but also relaxes you deeply so that you can experience that stillness, that energy from within. So it’s a very practical technique, Mark. And it’s actually offered in the U S as project welcome home troops to a lot of veterans.

[00:37:45] Ajay Tejasvi: So more than 8, 000 veterans. Active duty personnel and their families have undergone this, and almost 20 are in the pipeline to become teachers of this program as well. Oh, terrific. There was actually a film made about their experience, Almost Sunrise, that premiered on PBS as well. 

[00:38:03] Mark Divine: Yeah, thank you for doing that work.

[00:38:05] Mark Divine: Vets really need that, especially those who have served in combat for all these years. I love the explanation of the koshas and the integration process and how the breath can, you know, begin that breath. process. The breath, you know, it lays the foundation to get the mind back under our control so that we can connect to that witnessing kind of gateway or doorway to be able to experience that stillness.

[00:38:32] Mark Divine: Cause otherwise the mind, you know, I liken it when I teach to like, it’s a wild stallion. Like it’s just absolutely beautiful, but it’s running all over the place and just creating all sorts of problems. And so breath work and then meditation or mindfulness is the, is the process of taming the stallion, taming your mind.

[00:38:52] Mark Divine: Why do we do it? So that you can sit in stillness. It was, I think Punjabi said, I can’t remember if you use the word silence or stillness, Silence, silence is the most important thing. Don’t waste time not doing it. 

[00:39:05] Ajay Tejasvi: Silence is the mother of all creativity, Gurudev says, is the mother of innovation. 

[00:39:10] Mark Divine: It’s a field of pure potential.

[00:39:11] Mark Divine: So if you can touch that and taste that, that one taste, every time you do that, you bring back a gift, right? A creative gift, because it’s just pure creative potential. 

[00:39:22] Ajay Tejasvi: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:39:25] Mark Divine: This is why these, you know, skills of breath work and meditation are so important for leaders and creators and entrepreneurs and innovators.

[00:39:32] Mark Divine: You know, the world’s changing so fast, and AI will handle a lot of like, you know, the tasks that were part of the industrial, and now even information age. So, our most human skill is creation. And, but creation comes from that stillness. Can you give us an experience of the rhythmic breathing of the, I think that’s what you called it, or the 

[00:39:54] Ajay Tejasvi: The Sudarshan Kriya, the sky breath.

[00:39:57] Ajay Tejasvi: So that would be something that would take a little bit longer than this podcast. But what I can do is We’ll do another 

[00:40:03] Mark Divine: one. 

[00:40:03] Ajay Tejasvi: Yes, let’s do another one. So this I like to call the straw breath. This is something that you can do to relax yourself. And if you feel that, you know, you just want a few moments of just lowering even your blood pressure a little bit if there’s a lot of anxiety as well.

[00:40:23] Ajay Tejasvi: You just want to calm that down a little bit. So this is something called the straw breath that you can use. So what you do is just sit with your spine erect, relax your neck, relax your shoulders. Take a breath in through your nostrils. And as you breathe out, pretend as if you’re blowing out of a straw from your mouth.

[00:40:57] Ajay Tejasvi: Breathe in again,

[00:41:02] Ajay Tejasvi: and breathe out again through the straw.

[00:41:21] Ajay Tejasvi: Let’s do this one more time. Breathe in again,

[00:41:28] Ajay Tejasvi: and breathe out through the straw.

[00:41:49] Ajay Tejasvi: Relax. 

[00:41:52] Mark Divine: Profoundly simple and within just three breaths you can have a complete reset of your nervous system. It’s like the tumo breath of, you know, pursing lips and breathing out slowly to, to draw out the breath. It’s very calming for the nervous system. And that deep, deep diaphragmatic inhale is massaging the vagus nerve, stimulating that parasympathetic response, rest and digest.

[00:42:14] Mark Divine: So simple but profound. I read once or heard once that what’s called the Mother’s Breath, which is, you know, like a four count inhale, eight count exhale, was inscribed on the Great Pyramid in Giza. 

[00:42:28] Ajay Tejasvi: This wealth has been with humanity for centuries, you know, and some cultures have done a better job of protecting it than others.

[00:42:35] Mark Divine: I really am very grateful for the Indian culture’s preservation of the Vedic teachings and the ancient art of yoga and Ayurvedic philosophies. It’s really extraordinary. So thank you to your culture for that. 

[00:42:51] Ajay Tejasvi: Thank you. It’s 

[00:42:52] Mark Divine: having profound impact in the world to really help a lot of people be the change they want to see in the world.

[00:42:59] Mark Divine: Before we kind of move on, we’ll probably have to wrap up here in a few minutes, but I think a lot of people are confused in, at least in America, As to like what meditation really is, you know, is it just getting calm app and downloading an app and listening to a meditation? You know, I have my views on and I teach a process and I say, okay, this technique will do this to your mind and this technique will do that.

[00:43:22] Mark Divine: And maybe we do them in sequence because they’re both valuable skills, but you know what I mean? I’d love to hear your take on like breathing can be considered in the bucket of meditative practices, but you’re working with life force there. And, and controlling the mind. And then, like beyond that, there’s other meditative practices, some which include imagery work and the Kriyas and some which are just, you know, sitting in silence trying to touch base of that, that stillness.

[00:43:51] Mark Divine: Some are which are more concentration, which is like the Zen approach. So give us your kind of like 500 foot view of meditation. 

[00:43:58] Ajay Tejasvi: So, Mark, Gurudev often says that meditation is a mind without agitation. 

[00:44:05] Mark Divine: Yeah, that’s simple. I like that. 

[00:44:06] Ajay Tejasvi: A mind in deep rest is meditation and alertness as well. So the sort of practice that we do here at the Art of Living is called Sahaj Samadhi meditation and it complements the active breath based meditation that is the sky, right, that you also correctly pointed out.

[00:44:25] Ajay Tejasvi: So in the sky meditation, there is effort that is needed, right? You breathe in certain ways. And that helps that act of breathing then helps calm the mind down. Now, it’s helpful to understand or recognize that the body and the mind work on opposite paradigms. You know this as a former Navy SEAL, that for the body to be in peak condition, you need to exercise, you need to work out, you need to put effort, you need to eat right, you need to sleep right.

[00:44:56] Ajay Tejasvi: For the mind to work at its peak, you need to be able to let go. You need to be able to relax. Be effortless. And that letting go becomes very hard for us because we try to do something as you, as you alluded to in the beginning. 

[00:45:10] Mark Divine: You want to do something with your mind. As you’re talking, that is what the experience of flow is, is when the body is energized and performing at its peak, but the mind is completely relaxed through some mastery or just through the, you know, how the mind is, is trained or working in that moment.

[00:45:25] Ajay Tejasvi: Exactly. The flow state. And that is what researchers have found about the art of living techniques, where the mind is alert yet relaxed. They had this whole test of the, of the brain of regular meditators and people who first did this program. And not only did they find that even in the blood, uh, you found lactate and serum cortisol levels at much lower than people who just started, but also further on, uh, with the practice, it persisted.

[00:45:54] Ajay Tejasvi: For over a year, actually, even if they just did the practice twice or thrice to start with the program. So What we do here is about obviously with active sky breath meditation You use the breath to harmonize and then after that in the sahaj samadhi meditation It’s a just letting go, you know, just being and there’s a technique that you learn It’s again a 20 minute technique because the body can hold an asana can hold a posture for 20 minutes without much effort.

[00:46:28] Ajay Tejasvi: And so the idea is then to let the mind relax unto itself. Now, the ancient sages of the Vedic tradition found that there are certain sounds, right, that help the mind rest unto itself. And at the same time, stay alert because often the mind equates rest with sleep. You close your eyes, you’re so fatigued, you just fall asleep, or you close your eyes and there’s so many thoughts that are just running around.

[00:46:56] Ajay Tejasvi: Like you said, like a stallion, right? So how do you then relax this mind? And that is where these special sounds, these mantras, so the Sahaj Samadhi meditation is a mantra based meditation. And there’s a certain way in which you use these mantras to help the mind rest unto itself. So it’s a very simple yet profound technique that within 20 minutes can help you feel rejuvenated and full of energy.

[00:47:27] Ajay Tejasvi: And the sort of meditation, the sort of approach that we have here is, you know, people often think spirituality, meditation, all this is for people who just think about themselves. Here you see in the art of living, it’s a very active method of acceptance. You accept the situation as it is. You accept that.

[00:47:44] Ajay Tejasvi: Okay, fine. There needs to be change in the world, but how do you do it? When you’re peaceful, you can then contribute to a better response. And so this is how we do this in an integrated way. So the meditation forms part of this practice. And as part of this, we also encourage people to serve in their own communities.

[00:48:06] Ajay Tejasvi: To go out there and be of service. And so the veterans program is one such example. You know, we had some veterans who did this program. They really loved it. And they said, we’d like to offer this to more veterans. And we said, by all means, please go ahead. Like this, people have done this in schools in the U S as you know, violence is, is rampant in a lot of our schools.

[00:48:28] Ajay Tejasvi: So a lot of young children are learning this and teachers themselves learn this technique. So they can then pass this on to the students. So, the program itself is very, I would say, lead from self, you know, leading the self, leading with others, and leading for impact. 

[00:48:46] Mark Divine: Hmm, I love that. How does the mantra technique differ from TM, Transcendental Mantra Technique?

[00:48:53] Ajay Tejasvi: So, I would say these systems have come from the same Vedic tradition, but the way in which you use the mantra. Are different. I see in the two techniques, from what I know, have not done the TM technique, but I have spoken with practitioners. But the way in which you use the mantra is different. Mm-Hmm. in the TM technique and the SA meditation.

[00:49:15] Ajay Tejasvi: That’s terrific. 

[00:49:16] Mark Divine: As we kinda wrap up, like what is your personal mission and, and what’s next for you? Ajay. 

[00:49:24] Ajay Tejasvi: Thanks, Mark. You know, I’m an optimist, like you, and I think the best days of humanity are yet to come. 

[00:49:31] Mark Divine: I would agree. 

[00:49:32] Ajay Tejasvi: So I feel that, see, 20 years ago, not so many people were comfortable with meditation or 40 years ago, yoga was only for the hippies, but now more and more people are embracing it.

[00:49:44] Ajay Tejasvi: I think very often news headlines and the media would like you to believe that things are a lot more. I would say dour and down than they are 

[00:49:54] Mark Divine: the most abundant time Exactly that we’re aware of in human history Yeah, 

[00:49:58] Ajay Tejasvi: and so I feel like as change agents with this ability to manage ourselves We are uniquely positioned to help Humanity, like you say move to a different level of prosperity of evolution And I think the number of young people, the number of middle aged people and elderly people who are genuinely interested in this are so much more now than like 10, 15 years ago.

[00:50:26] Ajay Tejasvi: So I think there is a lot that we can do together at the Art of Living. We’re committed to making life a celebration on this, on this planet. And, and so we think that the best is yet to come. It’s so nice that there are people like you who are bringing this ancient wisdom for the benefit of all. And I commend your efforts as well, Mark.

[00:50:52] Ajay Tejasvi: And I think, you know, one thing I would say as we leave, you know, we accept food from different parts of the world. We accept clothing from different parts of the world. We accept music from different parts of the world. In fact, enjoy different kinds of music. Why not ideas from different parts of the world?

[00:51:10] Ajay Tejasvi: And I think today’s age, where there’s so much partisanship and so many divides, what if we just listen to one another a little bit more, and saw if there’s a way we can influence each other’s thinking, and meet together. Because the challenges that we face as a humanity are much greater than the smaller challenges that we seem to be arguing about.

[00:51:33] Ajay Tejasvi: So that would be my message, Mark. And I look forward to joining forces with folks like you and many, many others who want to see a better future for us all collectively. Uh, and we’re with you as well. 

[00:51:49] Mark Divine: It’s a team effort now, right? All hands on deck. Hey everyone. This is Mark Divine, founder of Shield Fit and Unbeatable Mind.

[00:51:57] Mark Divine: And I’m super stoked to announce that my new book, Uncommon is due out from St. Martin’s press this summer, July 16th. And we’ve launched a pre order campaign. You can learn more about that at readuncommon. com to try to get early awareness for the book, which I hope will help a lot of people where I go and do a deep dive on the five mountains.

[00:52:21] Mark Divine: Of personal mastery physical mental emotional intuitional and spiritual uncommon simple principles for an extraordinary life Check it out at read uncommon. com And thank you for your support and being part of the change you want to see in this world. Hooyah divine out I appreciate the work you’re doing and the art of happiness and your family’s long involvement in supporting that organization and all the wonderful teachers and people who are in service over there.

[00:52:49] Mark Divine: That’s amazing. I’d love to connect more and, you know, find a way to collaborate or just be in mutual support. 

[00:52:55] Ajay Tejasvi: Look forward to it, Mark. Look forward 

[00:52:57] Mark Divine: to it. And so much, Ajay, for your time today. What a wonderful conversation. I appreciate you, sir. 

[00:53:02] Ajay Tejasvi: Thank you. Me too. Thank you for what you do. 

[00:53:05] Mark Divine: Yeah. Namaste. And as we say in the seals, Hooyah!

[00:53:08] Ajay Tejasvi: Hooyah! Thank you for your service.